@3psboyd @grimalkina @glyph if your mental model of a LLM is that it's "grown", "unknowable", etc....how is that different from letting a junior dev write code? They are also literally grown, you can't see inside them to see how they work, and they don't do the same thing the same way twice.

@aud my hunch is that's your city council, but I honestly don't know that one for sure.

@aud I think “fire the chief” is the main lever they can pull. Front line cops answer to whatever militaristic gang organization the dept has set up.

@aud I’m not familiar with Portland’s setup but usually cops are under the executive. Police chief probably reports to the mayor.

@happyborg @grimalkina @rootwyrm absolutely do not come here with that energy. I think you’ve fundamentally misunderstood the conversation going on here.

@grimalkina @zenkat @rootwyrm I could swear I've heard of one of those...🤣

@grimalkina @zenkat @rootwyrm you know, I'm interested in this too. It *seems* like the people I'm hearing talk about how AI coding is the future are either non-coders who are like "look at this cool thing I built without knowing anything", or people who work for Microsoft or Google (who sell vibe coding tokens to the first group).

Everybody else I know professionally is either dipping their toes or taking a "wait and see" approach.

@aud I can't help but think "week of paid leave for every plain-clothes ICE agent I see in a holding cell after the judges go home" is an appropriate incentive for the local cops.

@grimalkina @trochee @rootwyrm you're also I think finding the edges of our (software devs) biases that lead to "vibe coding" being uses as a derogatory term.

Like, the thing you're describing (humans carefully construct the tests, LLMs write code that passes the tests) I personally wouldn't call "vibe coding". That's more like why Microsoft uses the "Copilot" branding for their generative AI offerings. That's the exact same workflow as working with an early-in-career developer.

@DeliaChristina pink bubbles are best bubbles.

@jalefkowit I’m so glad I wasn’t drinking something when I read this or I’d have a big mess to clean up. 🤣

@jalefkowit nothing says “this is a legit account of a public figure” like a number after the name. 🤣

@grimalkina @rootwyrm from what I’ve seen, the person giving the prompts runs the software and says “looks good to me”.

@grimalkina @trochee @rootwyrm this is a painfully fair assessment of unlicensed software engineering. 🤣

@grimalkina @rootwyrm letting an “AI” tool write the entirety of a piece of software, refining prompts until the generated code will run and seems to work.

@grimalkina @rootwyrm so like, if you actually do this exercise you'll see a P-trap directly under the sink's drain. If you look under all your sinks, you'll see one. If you spend some time puzzling about it, you'll realize that a P-trap *always* has water in it. You may also realize that if it has water in it, air can't get through. If you give a sewer pipe a sniff, you'll realize why you don't want air to get through.

AI-designed plumbing won't all match, and half your sinks will stink.

@sidereal @mcnado I have a strong hunch that the people who repeat this narrative (we're all gonna starve and die in a civil war) have completely bought into the media narrative that genocides and proxy wars are civil wars.

I think the proxy wars especially make things bad. If you look at civil wars the CIA *wasn't* involved in like Finland, Ireland, etc., the casualty numbers are really low.

It's when the US destabilizes a nation so it can be looted that things get really ugly.

@grimalkina @rootwyrm continuing with what I said above, I think the answer to whether a vibe coder can interrupt themselves and dive deeper, I think the answer is fundamentally no because there is no expertise to dive deeper into.

You can deduce some first principles about plumbing by looking under your sink, because a person designed it. No such thing exists in LLM-generated code.

Every "why did you do that" is answered with "statistically humans seem to like these words in this order".

@grimalkina @rootwyrm "I don't understand how my plumbing or electrical works" is such a good analogy.

Like, the building you live in was built to legal building code specifications. Humans with legal liability wrote the specs, other humans with legal liability followed those specs to build your dwelling. If something breaks, you either fix it yourself or call a human with legal liability to fix it.

Vibe coding has none of that. No spec, no humans, no liability anywhere.

@mcnado @sidereal it sounds like you're mentally conflating civil wars with genocides.