@mikami Einige von den Probleme sind ja in den "Nachfolgern" aus den 2020ern gelöst, also (streams) und Forte.
Hashtags kann man meines Wissens "folgen", aber nicht wie auf Mastodon als eine Art Akteur und durch Klicken, sondern mit einem Feld in den Einstellungen, wo man Hashtags eintragen kann.
Alt-Text kann man weiterhin in den Bildeinbettungscode reinschreiben. Aber zum einen kann das jetzt neben BBcode auch Markdown/HTML sein, wenn einem das vertrauter ist. Zum anderen muß man das nicht mehr. Statt dessen kann man schon beim Hochladen eines Bildes in den Filespace einen Alt-Text eintragen oder auch hinterher in der Bilder-App. Und dann kann man dasselbe Bild mit demselben Alt-Text immer und immer wieder einbauen, ohne den Alt-Text mehr als einmal schreiben zu müssen. Das wiederum geht auf Mastodon nicht.
Überhaupt ist da einiges eleganter gelöst als auf Hubzilla. ActivityPub muß nicht mehr aktiviert werden. Die Rechteverwaltung ist jetzt auch deutlich einfacher zu handhaben, weil sie jetzt gebaut ist für das reale Fediverse der 2020er und nicht mehr für eine Vision eines Fediverse, das es Mitte der 2010er geben sollte, das so aber nie kam.
diaspora* können beide nicht mehr. Der Aufwand, noch ein weiteres nichtnomadisches Protokoll mitzuschleppen und Zot ab Version 6 darauf auszulegen, hat sich wahrscheinlich nicht mehr gelohnt. (streams) basiert weiterhin auf Nomad, wie Zot jetzt heißt, aber ActivityPub ist so gut integriert, daß es Teil des Kerns geworden ist und standardmäßig aktiviert. Und Forte erschlägt alles mit ActivityPub und kennt gar kein anderes Protokoll mehr.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte
#CWFediMeta
@Big Pawed Bear I'm not talking about the technical side.
That is, you may not have noticed, but I'm not posting from Mastodon. I'm on Hubzilla where things are quite a bit different. Images aren't file attachments; they're embedded into posts in-line using BBcode markup like in classic bulletin board forums. Alt-text has no dedicated text entry box; instead, it's manually woven into the image embedding code.
No, what I mean is that here in the Fediverse, you can't describe an image like describing it to a friend over the phone. Open the link in my post. (If it looks like it may be a link, it actually is one, even if it isn't a URL in plain sight. I can do embedded links on Hubzilla, too.)
Anyway, if you describe an image to a friend over a landline phone with no image transfer, your friend can talk back. Your friend can even talk back before you start describing. You can ask your friend what they need to know, what they want to know. You can do that beforehand. And then you can describe the image in exactly the way that your friend needs.
In the Fediverse, you describe your images for potentially millions of Fediverse users and billions of Internet users. You can't first go around and ask them all, every last one of them, what they need to know and what they want to know. You have to perfectly cater to everyone's needs without even knowing anyone's actual needs because you can't know everyone's needs.
Describing for one person over the phone is one-size-fits-one. It's tailor-made for one person. Describing in the Fediverse has to be one-size-fits-all at first try, right off the bat.
This may not matter if you post a simple real-life cat photo. But I post renderings from super-obscure 3-D virtual worlds. Nobody knows what anything in my images look like until they can either see the images themselves, or I describe everything in these images to them. So this matters a whole lot in my case.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
That is, you may not have noticed, but I'm not posting from Mastodon. I'm on Hubzilla where things are quite a bit different. Images aren't file attachments; they're embedded into posts in-line using BBcode markup like in classic bulletin board forums. Alt-text has no dedicated text entry box; instead, it's manually woven into the image embedding code.
No, what I mean is that here in the Fediverse, you can't describe an image like describing it to a friend over the phone. Open the link in my post. (If it looks like it may be a link, it actually is one, even if it isn't a URL in plain sight. I can do embedded links on Hubzilla, too.)
Anyway, if you describe an image to a friend over a landline phone with no image transfer, your friend can talk back. Your friend can even talk back before you start describing. You can ask your friend what they need to know, what they want to know. You can do that beforehand. And then you can describe the image in exactly the way that your friend needs.
In the Fediverse, you describe your images for potentially millions of Fediverse users and billions of Internet users. You can't first go around and ask them all, every last one of them, what they need to know and what they want to know. You have to perfectly cater to everyone's needs without even knowing anyone's actual needs because you can't know everyone's needs.
Describing for one person over the phone is one-size-fits-one. It's tailor-made for one person. Describing in the Fediverse has to be one-size-fits-all at first try, right off the bat.
This may not matter if you post a simple real-life cat photo. But I post renderings from super-obscure 3-D virtual worlds. Nobody knows what anything in my images look like until they can either see the images themselves, or I describe everything in these images to them. So this matters a whole lot in my case.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
@Bob Tregilus Only that "my best" has actually led to unimaginable extremes.
They say an image is worth a thousand words. I've once described one image in over 10,000 words. Over 60,000 characters. The post is so long that, I think, Misskey and its various forks have rejected it, as have Pleroma and Akkoma. It took me two full days, morning to evening, to describe that one image, in-world research included.
And I actually had to limit myself. For once, I did not give in-depth descriptions of the images within that image, especially not beyond what's actually visible in these images. That's because I've discovered that if I were to do that, I'd have to describe dozens of images in one particular image (in my image) and potentially over a hundred images in these, even though they're so small that they're technically invisible. It would have taken me months to write all that. And it would have been futile anyway. My character limit is over 16 million, but Mastodon rejects posts over 100,000 characters, and in the few places that do accept posts with millions of characters, next to nobody cares about image descriptions.
I haven't posted a new in-world image in over half a year. I've been working on-and-off on the descriptions for a series of rather simple avatar portraits since last autumn.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
They say an image is worth a thousand words. I've once described one image in over 10,000 words. Over 60,000 characters. The post is so long that, I think, Misskey and its various forks have rejected it, as have Pleroma and Akkoma. It took me two full days, morning to evening, to describe that one image, in-world research included.
And I actually had to limit myself. For once, I did not give in-depth descriptions of the images within that image, especially not beyond what's actually visible in these images. That's because I've discovered that if I were to do that, I'd have to describe dozens of images in one particular image (in my image) and potentially over a hundred images in these, even though they're so small that they're technically invisible. It would have taken me months to write all that. And it would have been futile anyway. My character limit is over 16 million, but Mastodon rejects posts over 100,000 characters, and in the few places that do accept posts with millions of characters, next to nobody cares about image descriptions.
I haven't posted a new in-world image in over half a year. I've been working on-and-off on the descriptions for a series of rather simple avatar portraits since last autumn.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
@Big Pawed Bear @Bob Tregilus I beg to differ. You can't realistically do that in a Fediverse post as I've pointed out here (that's actually a Fediverse post that you may be able to search for and find it on Mastodon).
#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
@Bob Tregilus Of course, this means that the more obscure the content of your image is, the more in-depth you will have to go. At worst, there's nothing in your image of which non-sighted people know what it looks like unless you describe it. Simply mentioning that it's there is not sufficient.
My own original images aren't even photographs, nor are they pieces of art that represent real life. They're renderings from 3-D virtual worlds, very obscure 3-D virtual worlds even. Nobody knows what anything in these world looks like unless they can see it in my images. At the same time, however, chances are that they become so curious about these virtual worlds that they also become curious about everything in the image, not just what matters within the context of the post. That is, sometimes the image itself as a whole is the context. Either way, this means I can't just focus on certain elements in the image in my descriptions. I have to describe everything.
So I've gotten to a point at which even filling the alt-text character limit forced by Mastodon, Misskey and their respective forks (they cut longer alt-texts off at the 1,500-character mark) doesn't cut it. All my original images have two descriptions now. In addition to the one in the alt-text that's very limited, there is another one in the post that's more or less fully detailed, that contains transcripts of all text within the borders of the image, and that also comes with all explanations that I deem necessary. Since I don't have a character limit to worry about (the limit is defined by the database field rather than a hard-coded or configurable number), this description is likely to grow well over a hundred times longer than typical alt-text.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
My own original images aren't even photographs, nor are they pieces of art that represent real life. They're renderings from 3-D virtual worlds, very obscure 3-D virtual worlds even. Nobody knows what anything in these world looks like unless they can see it in my images. At the same time, however, chances are that they become so curious about these virtual worlds that they also become curious about everything in the image, not just what matters within the context of the post. That is, sometimes the image itself as a whole is the context. Either way, this means I can't just focus on certain elements in the image in my descriptions. I have to describe everything.
So I've gotten to a point at which even filling the alt-text character limit forced by Mastodon, Misskey and their respective forks (they cut longer alt-texts off at the 1,500-character mark) doesn't cut it. All my original images have two descriptions now. In addition to the one in the alt-text that's very limited, there is another one in the post that's more or less fully detailed, that contains transcripts of all text within the borders of the image, and that also comes with all explanations that I deem necessary. Since I don't have a character limit to worry about (the limit is defined by the database field rather than a hard-coded or configurable number), this description is likely to grow well over a hundred times longer than typical alt-text.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
@Mitex Leo If you don't mind the learning curve (because it handles nothing like Twitter or Mastodon), maybe Forte is something for you. It's the youngest member of a family of Fediverse server applications that started 15 years ago with a Facebook alternative that's now known as Friendica, and that also gave us Hubzilla and the streams repository.
It's written in PHP with a little side of JavaScript for post formatting, so no fumbling around with exotic dependencies. Administration is fairly easy, especially upgrading the whole thing for which there's a dedicated script. At the same time, it's both very powerful and very secure.
And it's probably the most technologically advanced Fediverse server software out there. After all, it's the first one to implement nomadic identity with nothing but ActivityPub.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Forte
It's written in PHP with a little side of JavaScript for post formatting, so no fumbling around with exotic dependencies. Administration is fairly easy, especially upgrading the whole thing for which there's a dedicated script. At the same time, it's both very powerful and very secure.
And it's probably the most technologically advanced Fediverse server software out there. After all, it's the first one to implement nomadic identity with nothing but ActivityPub.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Forte
@Furbland's Very Cool Mastodon™
I think we aren't thinking in the same dimensions.
How about 1,500 characters of alt-text for each image, 900 of which are image description, plus over 20,000 characters of description, explanations and transcripts for two images in the post itself?
How about 1,500 characters of alt-text, 1,400 of which are image description, plus over 60,000 characters of description, explanations and transcripts in the post itself?
In case you're on a phone: If the above looks like links, that's because it is links. The links lead to two of my image posts which, while not originally on Mastodon, are still in the Fediverse, and copies of both can actually be found on mastodon.social. The first one can be found under the hashtag #OSG17B; it's the third one (or fourth, counting this one) from the top. The second one can be found under the hashtag #UniversalCampus; it's the one at the bottom.
Oh, there's plenty of documentation on alt-text and image descriptions. For example:
Beware, though: They may contradict each other.
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but more detail can’t hurt.
I think we aren't thinking in the same dimensions.
How about 1,500 characters of alt-text for each image, 900 of which are image description, plus over 20,000 characters of description, explanations and transcripts for two images in the post itself?
How about 1,500 characters of alt-text, 1,400 of which are image description, plus over 60,000 characters of description, explanations and transcripts in the post itself?
In case you're on a phone: If the above looks like links, that's because it is links. The links lead to two of my image posts which, while not originally on Mastodon, are still in the Fediverse, and copies of both can actually be found on mastodon.social. The first one can be found under the hashtag #OSG17B; it's the third one (or fourth, counting this one) from the top. The second one can be found under the hashtag #UniversalCampus; it's the one at the bottom.
I just wrote this page because there was no documentation on it really,
Oh, there's plenty of documentation on alt-text and image descriptions. For example:
- https://www.accessible-social.com/images-and-visuals/writing-image-descriptions
- https://www.cooperhewitt.org/cooper-hewitt-guidelines-for-image-description/
- https://veroniiiica.com/media-accessibility/alt-text/ (this has loads of pages about alt-text and image descriptions, and the author is visually impaired herself)
- https://www.sandstormdesign.com/blog/website-accessibility-101-5-best-practices-writing-alt-text-images
- https://www.uml.edu/brand-communications-creative-strategy/resources-guidelines/web-accessibility/image-accessibility.aspx
- https://www.nngroup.com/articles/write-alt-text/
- https://www.continualengine.com/blog/alt-text-on-images/
- https://www.tpgi.com/short-note-on-coding-alt-text/
Beware, though: They may contradict each other.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
@Furbland's Very Cool Mastodon™ So the more detailed it is, the better? Would you say it's possible to describe an image in too many details, regardless of circumstances (e.g. what the expected audience may be curious about)?
Also, what about the rule that any and all text within the borders of an image must be transcribed 100% verbatim? There is text on the T-shirt, that's why I'm asking. I myself am someone who always transcribes every last bit of text within my original images. That said, the transcripts usually only go into the long description in the post itself (the character limit here is so high, it's fully negligible; but my original images always get two descriptions each). Most of the time, there simply isn't enough room for them in the alt-text (or what of it Mastodon, Misskey and their respective forks let through at full length).
I'm also asking because I plan to write my own wiki on alt-texts and image descriptions specifically for the Fediverse. It will be a wiki because it will be too detailed for only one article or page.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
Also, what about the rule that any and all text within the borders of an image must be transcribed 100% verbatim? There is text on the T-shirt, that's why I'm asking. I myself am someone who always transcribes every last bit of text within my original images. That said, the transcripts usually only go into the long description in the post itself (the character limit here is so high, it's fully negligible; but my original images always get two descriptions each). Most of the time, there simply isn't enough room for them in the alt-text (or what of it Mastodon, Misskey and their respective forks let through at full length).
I'm also asking because I plan to write my own wiki on alt-texts and image descriptions specifically for the Fediverse. It will be a wiki because it will be too detailed for only one article or page.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
@Sylkeweb Testing The Fediverse To be fair, "European Facebook" already exists. And it has been around for longer than Mastodon.
Friendica was created by an American living in Australia, but it's maintained by two Germans. Hubzilla was created (actually forked) by the same guy, and now it's maintained by a German and a Norwegian.
Both are part of the Fediverse. Friendica connects to Mastodon and everything else in the Fediverse, and Hubzilla can optionally do that, too.
None of them is an all-out, 1:1 clone of Facebook, though. Instead, both are better than Facebook.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Friendica #Hubzilla #FacebookAlternative #FacebookAlternatives
Friendica was created by an American living in Australia, but it's maintained by two Germans. Hubzilla was created (actually forked) by the same guy, and now it's maintained by a German and a Norwegian.
Both are part of the Fediverse. Friendica connects to Mastodon and everything else in the Fediverse, and Hubzilla can optionally do that, too.
None of them is an all-out, 1:1 clone of Facebook, though. Instead, both are better than Facebook.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Friendica #Hubzilla #FacebookAlternative #FacebookAlternatives
@wauz ワウズ Ist problemlos schon lange auch im Fediverse möglich, nur eben nicht auf Mastodon.
Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte haben nicht nur Gruppen mit allen Schikanen, sondern auch private Gruppen. Das heißt: Wer nicht in der Gruppe ist, kann die Threads in der Gruppe nicht sehen, kann das Profil der Gruppe nicht sehen, kann nicht sehen, wer alles in der Gruppe ist. Auf Hubzilla kann das sogar jeweils einzeln und unabhängig voneinander geschaltet werden.
Private Gruppen auf Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte unterstützen auch OpenWebAuth Magic Single Sign-On: Wenn du auf Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) oder Forte bist, egal, auf welcher Instanz du bist, und du besuchst die Gruppe, wird dein Login automatisch erkannt. Wenn du Gruppenmitglied bist, kannst du das Profil, die Gruppenmitglieder und den Gruppen-Stream mit allen Threads sehen.
Zusätzlich, also unabhängig davon, können solche Gruppen auch wahlweise in Verzeichnissen nicht angezeigt werden, damit sie nicht jeder findet.
Friendica-Gruppen können zusätzliche Moderatoren auf demselben Friendica-Node haben. Hubzilla-Foren, (streams)-Gruppen und Forte-Gruppen können zusätzliche Moderatoren irgendwo auf Hubzilla, (streams) oder Forte haben.
Gleichzeitig kannst du dein Friendica-Konto oder deinen Hubzilla-, (streams)- oder Forte-Kanal nutzen, um dich damit auch mit dem ganzen Rest des Fediverse zu verbinden, Mastodon, Misskey, Pixelfed, PeerTube, Castopod, Funkwhale, Lemmy, Mbin, PieFed usw. usf.
Aber: Wenn du einer privaten Friendica-Gruppe beitreten willst, brauchst du ein Friendica-Konto oder einen Hubzilla-, (streams)- oder Forte-Kanal. Wenn du einem privaten Hubzilla-Forum oder einer privaten (streams)- oder Forte-Gruppe beitreten willst brauchst du einen Hubzilla-, (streams)- oder Forte-Kanal. Mastodon kommt da jeweils nicht rein, weil es kein Konzept von Berechtigungen hat.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Gruppen #FediGruppen #FediverseGruppen
Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte haben nicht nur Gruppen mit allen Schikanen, sondern auch private Gruppen. Das heißt: Wer nicht in der Gruppe ist, kann die Threads in der Gruppe nicht sehen, kann das Profil der Gruppe nicht sehen, kann nicht sehen, wer alles in der Gruppe ist. Auf Hubzilla kann das sogar jeweils einzeln und unabhängig voneinander geschaltet werden.
Private Gruppen auf Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte unterstützen auch OpenWebAuth Magic Single Sign-On: Wenn du auf Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) oder Forte bist, egal, auf welcher Instanz du bist, und du besuchst die Gruppe, wird dein Login automatisch erkannt. Wenn du Gruppenmitglied bist, kannst du das Profil, die Gruppenmitglieder und den Gruppen-Stream mit allen Threads sehen.
Zusätzlich, also unabhängig davon, können solche Gruppen auch wahlweise in Verzeichnissen nicht angezeigt werden, damit sie nicht jeder findet.
Friendica-Gruppen können zusätzliche Moderatoren auf demselben Friendica-Node haben. Hubzilla-Foren, (streams)-Gruppen und Forte-Gruppen können zusätzliche Moderatoren irgendwo auf Hubzilla, (streams) oder Forte haben.
Gleichzeitig kannst du dein Friendica-Konto oder deinen Hubzilla-, (streams)- oder Forte-Kanal nutzen, um dich damit auch mit dem ganzen Rest des Fediverse zu verbinden, Mastodon, Misskey, Pixelfed, PeerTube, Castopod, Funkwhale, Lemmy, Mbin, PieFed usw. usf.
Aber: Wenn du einer privaten Friendica-Gruppe beitreten willst, brauchst du ein Friendica-Konto oder einen Hubzilla-, (streams)- oder Forte-Kanal. Wenn du einem privaten Hubzilla-Forum oder einer privaten (streams)- oder Forte-Gruppe beitreten willst brauchst du einen Hubzilla-, (streams)- oder Forte-Kanal. Mastodon kommt da jeweils nicht rein, weil es kein Konzept von Berechtigungen hat.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Gruppen #FediGruppen #FediverseGruppen
@Strypey One big issue is certainly that Mastodon, much more than anything else in the Fediverse, is incompatible with group conversations in a whole lot of ways at once.
This starts with Mastodon's timeline which still is a 1:1 clone of Twitter's feed. It only supports one mode: message-by-message piecemeal doomscrolling. It does not support listing entire threads instead of single messages. And while it does have notifications, it doesn't have an unread messages counter like Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte which also allows you to directly jump to a thread with unread messages in it.
Result: Comments on threads drown in the deluge that's a Mastodon timeline, never to be seen, unless they mention you. And on Fediverse server applications with full-blown, native group support from the very beginning, they usually don't mention you.
Add to this the hundreds or thousands of Fediverse actors that typical Mastodon users follow, often also to catch as many messages about certain topics as possible because they don't know that Mastodon can follow hashtags, because Twitter never could. This alone leads to timelines that may consist of 5% interesting stuff and 95% cruft, but they still have to scroll through the cruft because lists are so inconvenient, having more than four lists more so (it's tempting to think that Mastodon was actually designed by a Watership Down rabbit that can't count beyond four).
Most Mastodon users never get to read nearly everything that comes rushing through their timelines. Maybe 20%, maybe 10%, maybe less. They simply don't have the time to scroll all the way down until they see messages that they already know, especially not if they've only got time to check Mastodon once a day or even only once every couple of days.
They won't even scroll far enough down to catch all comments on a thread. Well, and even if they do, there's nothing signalling to them which "toots" are part of the same thread, not even which "toots" are comments on which "toot".
A huge improvement would be if Mastodon a) implemented full support for one-post-many-comments threaded conversations, b) implemented threaded modes for the timeline (sorted by newest post, sorted by newest comment) which would then list entire threads instead of message-by-message piecemeal and c) made it the default for everyone because the vast majority of Mastodon users run their accounts on 100% default settings. Also, at least all the important mobile apps for Mastodon would have to do the same, all the way to making the sorted-by-newest-comment threaded timeline the default for everyone, because next to nobody ever users Mastodon via the Web interface.
Then we can talk about improving interaction with link aggregators or anything else that supports groups, e.g. titles being unavailable and largely unknown on Mastodon, but a hard requirement for new threads on Lemmy, /kbin, Mbin and PieFed, or Mastodon and the Threadiverse having mutually incompatible ways of handling images.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Threadiverse #Lemmy #/kbin #Mbin #PieFed #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups #Conversations #ThreadedConversations
This starts with Mastodon's timeline which still is a 1:1 clone of Twitter's feed. It only supports one mode: message-by-message piecemeal doomscrolling. It does not support listing entire threads instead of single messages. And while it does have notifications, it doesn't have an unread messages counter like Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte which also allows you to directly jump to a thread with unread messages in it.
Result: Comments on threads drown in the deluge that's a Mastodon timeline, never to be seen, unless they mention you. And on Fediverse server applications with full-blown, native group support from the very beginning, they usually don't mention you.
Add to this the hundreds or thousands of Fediverse actors that typical Mastodon users follow, often also to catch as many messages about certain topics as possible because they don't know that Mastodon can follow hashtags, because Twitter never could. This alone leads to timelines that may consist of 5% interesting stuff and 95% cruft, but they still have to scroll through the cruft because lists are so inconvenient, having more than four lists more so (it's tempting to think that Mastodon was actually designed by a Watership Down rabbit that can't count beyond four).
Most Mastodon users never get to read nearly everything that comes rushing through their timelines. Maybe 20%, maybe 10%, maybe less. They simply don't have the time to scroll all the way down until they see messages that they already know, especially not if they've only got time to check Mastodon once a day or even only once every couple of days.
They won't even scroll far enough down to catch all comments on a thread. Well, and even if they do, there's nothing signalling to them which "toots" are part of the same thread, not even which "toots" are comments on which "toot".
A huge improvement would be if Mastodon a) implemented full support for one-post-many-comments threaded conversations, b) implemented threaded modes for the timeline (sorted by newest post, sorted by newest comment) which would then list entire threads instead of message-by-message piecemeal and c) made it the default for everyone because the vast majority of Mastodon users run their accounts on 100% default settings. Also, at least all the important mobile apps for Mastodon would have to do the same, all the way to making the sorted-by-newest-comment threaded timeline the default for everyone, because next to nobody ever users Mastodon via the Web interface.
Then we can talk about improving interaction with link aggregators or anything else that supports groups, e.g. titles being unavailable and largely unknown on Mastodon, but a hard requirement for new threads on Lemmy, /kbin, Mbin and PieFed, or Mastodon and the Threadiverse having mutually incompatible ways of handling images.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Threadiverse #Lemmy #/kbin #Mbin #PieFed #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups #Conversations #ThreadedConversations
@scxbi Da bin ich lieber vorsichtig.
Ich rechne ständig damit, daß Leute von der Mastodon HOA, Abteilung Alt-Text-Polizei, auch dann fehlenden Alt-Text sanktionieren, wenn das Bild im Post beschrieben ist, weil sie eisern die Regel durchsetzen wollen, daß jedes Bild im Fediverse einen hinreichend detaillierten und akkuraten Alt-Text haben muß.
Ich selbst muß meine eigenen Bilder notwendigerweise hochdetailliert beschreiben. Dazu kommen dann noch genug Erklärungen, damit wirklich jeder meine Bilderposts sofort versteht, egal, wie obskur das Thema auch sein mag. Und dazu kommen Transkripte von allem an Text im Bild. Ich brauche auch mal Stunden oder Tage, um ein einziges Bild zu beschreiben. Das Ergebnis ist eine Bildbeschreibung, die alle "normalen" Zeichenlimits im Fediverse um Größenordnungen übertrifft und auch deshalb direkt in den Post geht statt in den Alt-Text. (kein Problem hier, mein Zeichenlimit ist nicht 500, sondern über 16 Millionen). Das ist anstrengend genug, daß ich nicht alle paar Tage Bilder posten kann.
Da will ich nicht noch dafür angeschnauzt werden oder anderweitig auf den Deckel bekommen, daß das Bild keinen Alt-Text hat.
Also schreibe ich immer zusätzlich eine Bildbeschreibung für den Alt-Text, wobei meine Alt-Texte auch regelmäßig bei exakt 1500 Zeichen oder einigen wenigen darunter liegen. Vorsicht ist die Mutter der Porzellankiste.
Das heißt, Leute, die noch auf alten Mastodon-Versionen sind, wo Inhaltswarnungen die Bilder noch nicht verstecken, sehen eh erstmal nur das Bild, aber nicht den Post-Text, den ich wegen seiner Überlänge (= über 500 Zeichen) hinter einer Zusammenfassung und Inhaltswarnung verstecke. Das heißt, die sehen die lange Bildbeschreibung gar nicht, also wissen sie nicht, daß sie existiert.
Deswegen gibt's von mir im Alt-Text nicht nur eine Bildbeschreibung, die hoffentlich detailliert genug ist (auch wenn ich unmöglich die ganzen Text-Transkripte mit darin unterbringen kann), sondern auch einen Hinweis auf die lange Bildbeschreibung, und wo sie zu finden ist.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #Bildbeschreibung #Bildbeschreibungen #BildbeschreibungenMeta #CWBildbeschreibungenMeta #MastodonHOA #AltTextPolizei
Ich rechne ständig damit, daß Leute von der Mastodon HOA, Abteilung Alt-Text-Polizei, auch dann fehlenden Alt-Text sanktionieren, wenn das Bild im Post beschrieben ist, weil sie eisern die Regel durchsetzen wollen, daß jedes Bild im Fediverse einen hinreichend detaillierten und akkuraten Alt-Text haben muß.
Ich selbst muß meine eigenen Bilder notwendigerweise hochdetailliert beschreiben. Dazu kommen dann noch genug Erklärungen, damit wirklich jeder meine Bilderposts sofort versteht, egal, wie obskur das Thema auch sein mag. Und dazu kommen Transkripte von allem an Text im Bild. Ich brauche auch mal Stunden oder Tage, um ein einziges Bild zu beschreiben. Das Ergebnis ist eine Bildbeschreibung, die alle "normalen" Zeichenlimits im Fediverse um Größenordnungen übertrifft und auch deshalb direkt in den Post geht statt in den Alt-Text. (kein Problem hier, mein Zeichenlimit ist nicht 500, sondern über 16 Millionen). Das ist anstrengend genug, daß ich nicht alle paar Tage Bilder posten kann.
Da will ich nicht noch dafür angeschnauzt werden oder anderweitig auf den Deckel bekommen, daß das Bild keinen Alt-Text hat.
Also schreibe ich immer zusätzlich eine Bildbeschreibung für den Alt-Text, wobei meine Alt-Texte auch regelmäßig bei exakt 1500 Zeichen oder einigen wenigen darunter liegen. Vorsicht ist die Mutter der Porzellankiste.
Das heißt, Leute, die noch auf alten Mastodon-Versionen sind, wo Inhaltswarnungen die Bilder noch nicht verstecken, sehen eh erstmal nur das Bild, aber nicht den Post-Text, den ich wegen seiner Überlänge (= über 500 Zeichen) hinter einer Zusammenfassung und Inhaltswarnung verstecke. Das heißt, die sehen die lange Bildbeschreibung gar nicht, also wissen sie nicht, daß sie existiert.
Deswegen gibt's von mir im Alt-Text nicht nur eine Bildbeschreibung, die hoffentlich detailliert genug ist (auch wenn ich unmöglich die ganzen Text-Transkripte mit darin unterbringen kann), sondern auch einen Hinweis auf die lange Bildbeschreibung, und wo sie zu finden ist.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #Bildbeschreibung #Bildbeschreibungen #BildbeschreibungenMeta #CWBildbeschreibungenMeta #MastodonHOA #AltTextPolizei
I just stumbled upon the fairly recent blog post Finding the Joy in Alt Text by Bryn Newell who, unfortunately, is nowhere to be found on anything that Hubzilla can directly federate with. It talks about fun and poetry and whimsy in alt-text.
Well, for me personally, whimsy in image descriptions falls under "no can do".
One single image regularly takes me multiple days, morning to evening, to research for the description and explanation, to describe and explain. I end up with a long image description that measures several tens of thousands of characters, and that goes directly into the post. At that point, I don't have the time and energy to edit whimsy into that monster description. Besides, whimsy clashes with the extensive explanations that are necessary for everyone to understand my image posts.
Furthermore, I also distill a shorter image description for the alt-text to satisfy the Mastodon Home Owners' Association that demands there be a sufficiently detailed and descriptive alt-text for each image even if there are well over 100 Mastodon toots worth of image description in the post itself. Nonetheless, my alt-texts end up either exactly 1,500 characters long or only a very few characters short of that. I simply don't have room for whimsy in my alt-texts. I could technically make them longer, but then Mastodon, Misskey and their respective forks would chop them off at the 1,500-character mark.
Not to mention that my original images never mean to convey emotions. Ever.
Oh, and I can't describe my images like to a friend over a landline phone either. That'd mean I'd describe my image to one person. In a situation that allows for dialogue. I could ask my friend beforehand what they want to know about the image and what they need to know about the topics touched by the image to understand the image. I'd have to ask that because my images always show extremely obscure niche content that the vast majority of Fediverse users knows exactly nothing about. After asking and receiving the answers I need, I could give a description tailor-made for that one friend. Also, that friend could always ask me about details while I'm describing.
In the Fediverse, I describe my images to potentially millions of Fediverse users and billions of Internet users. That's a situation that does not allow for dialogue. I can't possibly ask any of them what they want or what they need, much less every last one of them. I can't tailor my descriptions to their needs. Before I start describing, I know nothing about who wants and needs what. But when I'm done, everybody must know everything about the image and the topic of the image that they want or need to know. This means everyone must get the same massive info-dump because someone somewhere out there may want or need it.
I can't describe an image over the phone the same way. I can't start describing an image over the phone by first giving lengthy explanations between several minutes and about an hour before I start describing the visuals. But my long descriptions require just that if I want to cover everyone's needs and requirements all the same.
A pity I can't give any direct feedback. But then again, the author most likely knows nothing about Fediverse culture and how alt-text and image descriptions are even more deeply engrained there. And the author probably can't imagine either that it's possible to post in excess of 50,000 characters at once in social media.
@accessibility group @a11y group
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #A11y #Accessibility
Well, for me personally, whimsy in image descriptions falls under "no can do".
One single image regularly takes me multiple days, morning to evening, to research for the description and explanation, to describe and explain. I end up with a long image description that measures several tens of thousands of characters, and that goes directly into the post. At that point, I don't have the time and energy to edit whimsy into that monster description. Besides, whimsy clashes with the extensive explanations that are necessary for everyone to understand my image posts.
Furthermore, I also distill a shorter image description for the alt-text to satisfy the Mastodon Home Owners' Association that demands there be a sufficiently detailed and descriptive alt-text for each image even if there are well over 100 Mastodon toots worth of image description in the post itself. Nonetheless, my alt-texts end up either exactly 1,500 characters long or only a very few characters short of that. I simply don't have room for whimsy in my alt-texts. I could technically make them longer, but then Mastodon, Misskey and their respective forks would chop them off at the 1,500-character mark.
Not to mention that my original images never mean to convey emotions. Ever.
Oh, and I can't describe my images like to a friend over a landline phone either. That'd mean I'd describe my image to one person. In a situation that allows for dialogue. I could ask my friend beforehand what they want to know about the image and what they need to know about the topics touched by the image to understand the image. I'd have to ask that because my images always show extremely obscure niche content that the vast majority of Fediverse users knows exactly nothing about. After asking and receiving the answers I need, I could give a description tailor-made for that one friend. Also, that friend could always ask me about details while I'm describing.
In the Fediverse, I describe my images to potentially millions of Fediverse users and billions of Internet users. That's a situation that does not allow for dialogue. I can't possibly ask any of them what they want or what they need, much less every last one of them. I can't tailor my descriptions to their needs. Before I start describing, I know nothing about who wants and needs what. But when I'm done, everybody must know everything about the image and the topic of the image that they want or need to know. This means everyone must get the same massive info-dump because someone somewhere out there may want or need it.
I can't describe an image over the phone the same way. I can't start describing an image over the phone by first giving lengthy explanations between several minutes and about an hour before I start describing the visuals. But my long descriptions require just that if I want to cover everyone's needs and requirements all the same.
A pity I can't give any direct feedback. But then again, the author most likely knows nothing about Fediverse culture and how alt-text and image descriptions are even more deeply engrained there. And the author probably can't imagine either that it's possible to post in excess of 50,000 characters at once in social media.
@accessibility group @a11y group
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #A11y #Accessibility
@Johannes Ernst Since you weren't mentioned in these replies, you probably weren't notified about them either. So, fresh from your thread:
Evan Prodromou schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Thu, 22 May 2025 00:38:22 +0200 @jupiter_rowland
https://cosocial.ca/@evan/114548184600389826 Christine Lemmer-Webber schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Thu, 22 May 2025 00:38:35 +0200 @jupiter_rowland Well I don't think I'm the ActivityPub inventress, though I certainly played a big role in its standardization and etc. The history of the name "ActivityPub" is one of those things that could be lost to time tho, so here's what happened, per my memory: 🧵 Christine Lemmer-Webber schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Thu, 22 May 2025 00:40:45 +0200 - @evan developed Pump.io's API experimenting towards a new, simpler, better design to replace OStatus called the "Pump.io API" https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/blob/master/API.md
- @erincandescent sets up "ActivityPump" doc, converting Evan's api docs into more formal protocol format/language, using ActivityStreams2
- In the SocialWG, MicroPub was also being standardized; there was hope the two specs would converge, and @rhiaro suggested we rename to ActivityPub, a big name upgrade anyway Christine Lemmer-Webber schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Thu, 22 May 2025 00:42:37 +0200 Ultimately the merge between MicroPub and ActivityPub didn't happen, but they did learn from each other, and ActivityPub did keep its improved name. The "Pump" language was awkward; Pump.io had an infamously awkward (but I don't think intentional) tagline along the lines of "Pump.io pumps your life through your family and friends" or something else that made me think yes, actually dropping the name "pump" might be a good idea, and ActivityPub seemed good Christine Lemmer-Webber schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Thu, 22 May 2025 00:44:36 +0200 I'm not much of the ActivityPub inventress; I did shape it a lot, and guided it through the process. Ultimately, ActivityPub's core design ideas came from @evan, though really I think they really derive from the kind of design that comes out of actor model systems (even though AP deviates in various places from the actor model, it's best when it follows it)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #ActivityPub #QuotePost #QuoteTweet #QuoteToot #QuoteBoost
Evan Prodromou schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Thu, 22 May 2025 00:38:22 +0200 @jupiter_rowland
https://cosocial.ca/@evan/114548184600389826 Christine Lemmer-Webber schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Thu, 22 May 2025 00:38:35 +0200 @jupiter_rowland Well I don't think I'm the ActivityPub inventress, though I certainly played a big role in its standardization and etc. The history of the name "ActivityPub" is one of those things that could be lost to time tho, so here's what happened, per my memory: 🧵 Christine Lemmer-Webber schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Thu, 22 May 2025 00:40:45 +0200 - @evan developed Pump.io's API experimenting towards a new, simpler, better design to replace OStatus called the "Pump.io API" https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/blob/master/API.md
- @erincandescent sets up "ActivityPump" doc, converting Evan's api docs into more formal protocol format/language, using ActivityStreams2
- In the SocialWG, MicroPub was also being standardized; there was hope the two specs would converge, and @rhiaro suggested we rename to ActivityPub, a big name upgrade anyway Christine Lemmer-Webber schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Thu, 22 May 2025 00:42:37 +0200 Ultimately the merge between MicroPub and ActivityPub didn't happen, but they did learn from each other, and ActivityPub did keep its improved name. The "Pump" language was awkward; Pump.io had an infamously awkward (but I don't think intentional) tagline along the lines of "Pump.io pumps your life through your family and friends" or something else that made me think yes, actually dropping the name "pump" might be a good idea, and ActivityPub seemed good Christine Lemmer-Webber schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Thu, 22 May 2025 00:44:36 +0200 I'm not much of the ActivityPub inventress; I did shape it a lot, and guided it through the process. Ultimately, ActivityPub's core design ideas came from @evan, though really I think they really derive from the kind of design that comes out of actor model systems (even though AP deviates in various places from the actor model, it's best when it follows it)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #ActivityPub #QuotePost #QuoteTweet #QuoteToot #QuoteBoost
@Johannes Ernst Paging @Evan Prodromou and the ActivityPub inventress, @Christine Lemmer-Webber.
#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #ActivityPub
#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #ActivityPub
@David Reason #1: Friendica is more known than Hubzilla. Friendica is somewhat well-known as "the Fediverse's Facebook alternative", regardless of there technically being four from the same original creator (not counting those in-between that were discontinued). Early this year, when Facebook was further enshittified, half the Fediverse was completely crazy about Friendica.
In the meantime, at least three quarters of the Fediverse's user base have never even heard of Hubzilla (there has been a poll, yes). But most Mastodon users only know of one Twitter alternative in the Fediverse as well, namely Mastodon, regardless of even only the uncountable Forkeys.
Reason #2: Hubzilla has the Eiger North Face of learning curves. I'm a Hubzilla veteran. Still, I think that even (streams) is user-friendlier, and (streams) is still harder to get into than Friendica which, in turn, is much harder to get into than Mastodon or some *key, especially when you've got "Twitter on the brain".
Even though I daily-drive Hubzilla, I normally only recommend it to those who really need its extra features. To those who want fail-safe Friendica or Friendica with even better permissions, I'd rather recommend Forte or, if they like the idea of being able to turn ActivityPub of as a last line of defence against the Mastodon HOA, (streams).
I think the new community-written help has yet to be officially adopted by Hubzilla, too. Hubzilla is one of the few Fediverse server applications with a built-in help system, but as of now, that help is not only hard to understand, but also hopelessly outdated, often simply factually wrong and very incomplete.
Reason #3: Friendica's UI has actually evolved over the years. In the meantime, Hubzilla's only official theme hasn't changed much since 2012. The name "Redbasic" says it all: It was the basic theme in the early days when Hubzilla was still named Red. And back in the day, Friendica's standard theme which it was derived from wasn't exactly pretty either.
The development of third-party Hubzilla themes hasn't really picked up speed until not even a year ago. I mean, we have some now, but especially the big hubs only offer you Redbasic. (Still I wish (streams) and Forte upgraded Redbasic to version 2.2 and maybe also Bootstrap icons.)
Speaking of third-party themes: BookFace. A theme to make Facebook refugees feel at home. Exclusive to Friendica.
Reason #4: Friendica has at least got native third-party Android apps plus a third-party iOS app in very incomplete development. All that Hubzilla has is Nomad, a glorified specialised Web browser that's about 10% native and 90% Web interface, that's only available on F-Droid and not in the Google Play Store, that has last been maintained in December, 2019, and that can't even be installed on newer devices. (Fun fact: Nomad has also become the name of Hubzilla's underlying protocol in the meantime.) Hubzilla's Web UI adapts to small screens gracefully, but people expect and demand a native iOS or Android UI.
Reason #5: Newbies who approached Hubzilla like they had approached Mastodon, who wanted to get going right away with 100% default settings, and who threw in the towel because they couldn't connect to Mastodon accounts. Hubzilla really lacks a big fat honkin' red label that warns you that you first have to "install" the ActivityPub "app" because ActivityPub not only isn't Hubzilla's basic protocol, but it's optional and, on top of even that, off by default for new channels.
Maybe reason #6: GPL fanatics for whom all licenses that aren't any kind of GNU GPL are non-free and must therefore be abolished. Friendica was re-licensed under the AGPLv3 in late 2011 whereas Hubzilla remains under the MIT license.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte
In the meantime, at least three quarters of the Fediverse's user base have never even heard of Hubzilla (there has been a poll, yes). But most Mastodon users only know of one Twitter alternative in the Fediverse as well, namely Mastodon, regardless of even only the uncountable Forkeys.
Reason #2: Hubzilla has the Eiger North Face of learning curves. I'm a Hubzilla veteran. Still, I think that even (streams) is user-friendlier, and (streams) is still harder to get into than Friendica which, in turn, is much harder to get into than Mastodon or some *key, especially when you've got "Twitter on the brain".
Even though I daily-drive Hubzilla, I normally only recommend it to those who really need its extra features. To those who want fail-safe Friendica or Friendica with even better permissions, I'd rather recommend Forte or, if they like the idea of being able to turn ActivityPub of as a last line of defence against the Mastodon HOA, (streams).
I think the new community-written help has yet to be officially adopted by Hubzilla, too. Hubzilla is one of the few Fediverse server applications with a built-in help system, but as of now, that help is not only hard to understand, but also hopelessly outdated, often simply factually wrong and very incomplete.
Reason #3: Friendica's UI has actually evolved over the years. In the meantime, Hubzilla's only official theme hasn't changed much since 2012. The name "Redbasic" says it all: It was the basic theme in the early days when Hubzilla was still named Red. And back in the day, Friendica's standard theme which it was derived from wasn't exactly pretty either.
The development of third-party Hubzilla themes hasn't really picked up speed until not even a year ago. I mean, we have some now, but especially the big hubs only offer you Redbasic. (Still I wish (streams) and Forte upgraded Redbasic to version 2.2 and maybe also Bootstrap icons.)
Speaking of third-party themes: BookFace. A theme to make Facebook refugees feel at home. Exclusive to Friendica.
Reason #4: Friendica has at least got native third-party Android apps plus a third-party iOS app in very incomplete development. All that Hubzilla has is Nomad, a glorified specialised Web browser that's about 10% native and 90% Web interface, that's only available on F-Droid and not in the Google Play Store, that has last been maintained in December, 2019, and that can't even be installed on newer devices. (Fun fact: Nomad has also become the name of Hubzilla's underlying protocol in the meantime.) Hubzilla's Web UI adapts to small screens gracefully, but people expect and demand a native iOS or Android UI.
Reason #5: Newbies who approached Hubzilla like they had approached Mastodon, who wanted to get going right away with 100% default settings, and who threw in the towel because they couldn't connect to Mastodon accounts. Hubzilla really lacks a big fat honkin' red label that warns you that you first have to "install" the ActivityPub "app" because ActivityPub not only isn't Hubzilla's basic protocol, but it's optional and, on top of even that, off by default for new channels.
Maybe reason #6: GPL fanatics for whom all licenses that aren't any kind of GNU GPL are non-free and must therefore be abolished. Friendica was re-licensed under the AGPLv3 in late 2011 whereas Hubzilla remains under the MIT license.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte
@PaulaToThePeople Es ist immer wieder faszinierend.
Beinahe jede Minderheit steht im Fediverse unter besonderem Schutz. BIPoC, die 2SLGBTQQIA+-Community usw., wenn sich da auch nur jemand versehentlich im Wort vergreift, wird nach schweren Sanktionen gerufen bis hin zum Fediblock der betreffenden Instanz, wenn da nicht sofort die Moderation einschreitet.
Beinahe, weil das nicht auf das Fediverse außerhalb von Mastodon zutrifft. Zum einen würden unzählige Mastodon-Nutzer einen heiligen Eid ablegen, daß das Nicht-Mastodon-Fediverse in keinster Weise diskriminiert wird. Zum anderen aber sind es häufig exakt dieselben Leute, die selbst das Nicht-Mastodon-Fediverse aktiv diskriminieren und diese Diskriminierung entweder mit Zähnen und Klauen verteidigen oder gar gutheißen.
Weil die allermeisten Mastodon-Nutzer diese Diskriminierung überhaupt nicht bemerken (und daher schwören, daß es keine Diskriminierung gibt), hier mal ein paar Beispiele ohne Anspruch auf Vollständigkeit:
Kurioserweise gilt es als völlig legitim und gerechtfertigt, wenn Mastodon-Nutzer z. B. Friendica-Nutzer anweisen, trotz eines Zeichenlimits von 200.000 ihre Posts auf maximal 500 Zeichen zu beschränken und längere Posts auf Threads aufzuteilen. Und wehe, der Rest des Thread steht nicht auf Unlisted (Friendica kennt kein Unlisted). Wenn aber ein Friendica-Nutzer sich über dieses Geschnipsel von Mastodon aufregen, Mastodon-Nutzern raten, wenn sie soviel zu posten haben, auf Instanzen mit höherem Limit umzuziehen, oder gar ankündigen, jeden zu blockieren, der so rumschnipselt (ich kenne jemanden, der das tatsächlich tut), ist das übergriffig und diskriminierend.
Auch Mastodon-Nutzer ungefragt darauf hinzuweisen, daß das Fediverse mehr ist als nur Mastodon, ist übergriffig. Übrigens fragen Mastodon-Nutzer nie, ob das Fediverse nicht vielleicht doch über Mastodon hinausgeht.
@crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts (der übrigens auf Calckey ist, einem Misskey-Fork, der mit Mastodon nichts, aber auch gar nichts zu tun hat) ist selbst oft genug Zeuge und auch Opfer solcher Diskriminierung geworden. Inklusive buchstäblich jemandem, der von ihm gefordert hat, nicht mehr als 500 Zeichen zu posten oder sich gefälligst aus dem Fediverse zu verpissen.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NichtNurMastodon #Diskriminierung #MastodonNormativität #MastodonZentrizität
Beinahe jede Minderheit steht im Fediverse unter besonderem Schutz. BIPoC, die 2SLGBTQQIA+-Community usw., wenn sich da auch nur jemand versehentlich im Wort vergreift, wird nach schweren Sanktionen gerufen bis hin zum Fediblock der betreffenden Instanz, wenn da nicht sofort die Moderation einschreitet.
Beinahe, weil das nicht auf das Fediverse außerhalb von Mastodon zutrifft. Zum einen würden unzählige Mastodon-Nutzer einen heiligen Eid ablegen, daß das Nicht-Mastodon-Fediverse in keinster Weise diskriminiert wird. Zum anderen aber sind es häufig exakt dieselben Leute, die selbst das Nicht-Mastodon-Fediverse aktiv diskriminieren und diese Diskriminierung entweder mit Zähnen und Klauen verteidigen oder gar gutheißen.
Weil die allermeisten Mastodon-Nutzer diese Diskriminierung überhaupt nicht bemerken (und daher schwören, daß es keine Diskriminierung gibt), hier mal ein paar Beispiele ohne Anspruch auf Vollständigkeit:
- Wenn jemand "Mastodon" sagt, aber das ganze Fediverse meint.
- Wenn jemand "Fediverse" sagt, aber nur ganz explizit Mastodon meint.
- Wenn jemand Mastodon als in sich geschlossenes eigenes Netzwerk ansieht und bezeichnet.
- Wenn eine Website mit Fediverse-Konnektivität oder eine App entwickelt wird, die hart nur gegen Mastodon gebaut wird und nur zu Mastodon kompatibel ist, aber "Fedi" oder gar "Fediverse" im Namen trägt.
- Wenn im (vermeintlichen) Namen des Fediverse Veranstaltungen stattfinden, bei denen es ausschließlich um Mastodon geht.
- Wenn Mastodon-Nutzer Nicht-Mastodon-Nutzern verbieten, mehr als 500 Zeichen pro Post zu posten.
- Wenn Mastodon-Nutzer Nicht-Mastodon-Nutzern verbieten, andere Features zu nutzen, die Mastodon nicht hat und/oder die in der 2022 definierten Mastodon-Kultur nicht vorkommen.
- Wenn Mastodon-Nutzer Friendica-, Hubzilla-, (streams)- oder Forte-Nutzer anweisen, ihr Zusammenfassungsfeld nur und ausschließlich für Inhaltswarnungen zu verwenden, ihnen aber gleichzeitig verbieten, Extra-Hashtags zum automatischen Generieren leserseitiger Inhaltswarnungen zu setzen, die es auf Friendica und Hubzilla schon länger gibt als Mastodon überhaupt.
- Wenn Mastodon-Nutzer Nicht-Mastodon-Nutzer dazu zwingen, die Kultur der eigenen Software komplett aufzugeben und statt dessen sich nur und ausschließlich die Mastodon-Kultur zu eigen zu machen, die zu besagter Software völlig inkompatibel ist. Das schließt ausdrücklich Friendica ein, das seit 2010 existiert, also mehr als fünf Jahre länger als Mastodon, und dessen Kultur fast ein Dutzend Jahre älter ist als die Mastodon-Kultur.
Kurioserweise gilt es als völlig legitim und gerechtfertigt, wenn Mastodon-Nutzer z. B. Friendica-Nutzer anweisen, trotz eines Zeichenlimits von 200.000 ihre Posts auf maximal 500 Zeichen zu beschränken und längere Posts auf Threads aufzuteilen. Und wehe, der Rest des Thread steht nicht auf Unlisted (Friendica kennt kein Unlisted). Wenn aber ein Friendica-Nutzer sich über dieses Geschnipsel von Mastodon aufregen, Mastodon-Nutzern raten, wenn sie soviel zu posten haben, auf Instanzen mit höherem Limit umzuziehen, oder gar ankündigen, jeden zu blockieren, der so rumschnipselt (ich kenne jemanden, der das tatsächlich tut), ist das übergriffig und diskriminierend.
Auch Mastodon-Nutzer ungefragt darauf hinzuweisen, daß das Fediverse mehr ist als nur Mastodon, ist übergriffig. Übrigens fragen Mastodon-Nutzer nie, ob das Fediverse nicht vielleicht doch über Mastodon hinausgeht.
@crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts (der übrigens auf Calckey ist, einem Misskey-Fork, der mit Mastodon nichts, aber auch gar nichts zu tun hat) ist selbst oft genug Zeuge und auch Opfer solcher Diskriminierung geworden. Inklusive buchstäblich jemandem, der von ihm gefordert hat, nicht mehr als 500 Zeichen zu posten oder sich gefälligst aus dem Fediverse zu verpissen.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NichtNurMastodon #Diskriminierung #MastodonNormativität #MastodonZentrizität
@crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts @fedi (ツ) Schätze, da treffen sich diejenigen, für die "Mastodon" und "Fediverse" immer noch gegenseitig 100% deckungsgleich und gleichbedeutend sind.
#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NichtNurMastodon
#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NichtNurMastodon
Client Info
Server: https://mastodon.social
Version: 2025.04
Repository: https://github.com/cyevgeniy/lmst