Martin G. auf Hubzilla schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Wed, 10 Dec 2025 21:39:53 +0100 Warum ich Real-Life-Fediverse-Treffen meide
Ich brauche nicht zu Fediverse-Treffen zu gehen, wo man feindselig gegenüber dem Fediverse jenseits von Mastodon ist
So Sachen wie TröötUp oder FediGlüHH stehe ich inzwischen sehr skeptisch gegenüber.

Nach meiner Erfahrung sind das keine Fediverse-Treffen, sondern reine Mastodon-Treffen. Nach meiner Erfahrung gibt es da keine Alternative zur Denke „Fediverse gleich Mastodon“. Und nach meiner Erfahrung will man da niemanden dabei haben, der woanders im Fediverse als auf Mastodon ist.

Ich bin aber nicht auf Mastodon – falls irgendwelche meiner Kontakte das immer noch glauben sollten. Als ich damals das eine mal auf dem TröötUp war, war ich noch auf (streams). Inzwischen bin ich wieder auf Hubzilla. Beides ist im Fediverse, beides kann sich mit Mastodon verbinden, aber beides hat mit Mastodon nicht das Geringste zu tun.

#Fediverse #Hubzilla #(streams) #TröötUp #FediGlüHH

So Sachen wie TröötUp oder FediGlüHH stehe ich inzwischen sehr skeptisch gegenüber.

Nach meiner Erfahrung sind das keine Fediverse-Treffen, sondern reine Mastodon-Treffen. Nach meiner Erfahrung gibt es da keine Alternative zur Denke „Fediverse gleich Mastodon“. Und nach meiner Erfahrung will man da niemanden dabei haben, der woanders im Fediverse als auf Mastodon ist.

Ich bin aber nicht auf Mastodon – falls irgendwelche meiner Kontakte das immer noch glauben sollten. Als ich damals das eine mal auf dem TröötUp war, war ich noch auf (streams). Inzwischen bin ich wieder auf Hubzilla. Beides ist im Fediverse, beides kann sich mit Mastodon verbinden, aber beides hat mit Mastodon nicht das Geringste zu tun.

#Fediverse #Hubzilla #(streams) #TröötUp #FediGlüHH

@tofeo  :verified: @julian ...where "always" means "since before there was even Mastodon".

A side-effect of their model, present at least on Hubzilla and Hubzilla's descendants, including still existing (streams) and Forte, is that comments/replies cannot exist in a stream without a) a parent and b) a start post. On all of them, including Friendica, it isn't a post if it replies to something, very much unlike Mastodon where a thread is a bunch of posts.

Depending on whom you ask, a conversation looks either like this:

• Post
  
  • Comment
    
    • Comment
      
      • Comment
  • Comment
    
    • Comment
      
      • Comment

or like this:

• Post
  
  • Comment
    
    • Reply
      
      • Reply
  • Comment
    
    • Reply
      
      • Reply

And by default, you always see it like this, very much unlike Mastodon where you only see single-message piecemeal in any timeline, and you have to dig deep to see a whole thread.

If you delete a comment or a reply, this won't just remove the comment from the conversation and rip a hole into the branch in the conversation where the comment used to be. Instead, it will delete the comment, all comments on it, all comments on these comments and so far from the conversation because all these comments on comments no longer have a parent, and therefore, they no longer have anywhere to attach in the conversation.

If you delete the post, you delete the whole conversation. The comments on the post will no longer have a parent, and nothing in the conversation will have a post to refer to anymore.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Conversationa

@The Nexus of Privacy Unfortunately, I can't join that discussion for some reason.

Just so much, @Emelia 👸🏻: Most of my Fediverse data and identities are anything but locked to any instance. All my Hubzilla and (streams) channels are nomadic and cloned across two fully independent servers each. I could make more clones, I could declare any clone the new main instance, and no matter which server goes offline, my channels will carry on.

Each of these servers corresponds not to an ATmosphere PDS and not to a full ATmosphere PDS/relay/AppView stack either, but to a Mastodon server, only that these servers use something else than ActivityPub as their primary protocol and ActivityPub only as an optional extra protocol. However, with the creation of Forte in August, 2024, this technology was first implemented entirely with ActivityPub.

This technology is neither new nor experimental; in fact, it has been around for longer than Mastodon, much less Bluesky: It was conceived in 2011 and first implemented on a precursor of Hubzilla in mid-2012.

CC: @Martin Holland @Rob Ricci

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #PortableIdentity #NomadicIdentity

@visionaire Das ist auch nicht weniger umfangreich als das von Hubzilla, auch wenn man alles direkt am Kanal oder Kontakt einstellen kann, ohne Makros zu brauchen.

Noch dazu hast du eh Extrafeatures wie den Anti-Boost-Schalter, wo du auf Hubzilla die Filter bemühen darfst.

(Ich sollte mal eine RegEx-Zeile auskochen gegen Quote-Posts für die, die mit sowas rumspammen.)

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams)

@Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ hat in einem sehr guten Artikel die Problematik des Unterbindens von Kommentaren ausgeführt.

Bei (streams) wird die Funktion Akzeptiere die Zustellung von Kommentaren zu Deinen Beiträgen genannt und macht klarer, dass hier nicht Kommentare, sondern ihre Zustellung unterbunden wird. Praktisch ist das mit der Funktion Stummschalten vergleichbar.

Leider sprechen Hubzilla und (streams) in diesem Thema nicht die gleiche Sprache und Kommentare werden zugestellt, obwohl die Zustellung untersagt wurde.

#hubzilla #(streams) #kommentare

@Ben Pate 🤘🏻 Is this limited to moving to Bandwagon? Or from and to Bandwagon?

Or is the plan to ultimately support moving from anywhere in the Fediverse to anywhere in the Fediverse, including e.g. from ActivityPub-based Mastodon to Nomad-based but ActivityPub-enabled (streams) that works drastically different from Mastodon?

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Bandwagon #Mastodon #Streams #(streams) #Emissary

 Jupiter Rowland schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Sun, 21 Sep 2025 21:42:56 +0200 How broken-by-design are Mastodon's quote-posts? This broken.
The various issues with quote-posts on Mastodon that nobody on Mastodon is aware of; CW: long (almost 6,800 characters), Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta, Mastodon looking bad in comparison with the rest of the Fediverse, quote-post meta
Okay, everyone, sit down. I'll tell you a few things about Mastodon's quote-post feature that you know nothing about. Definitely not if all you know is Mastodon. Oh, and by the way, in case you don't know yet in spite of following me: The Fediverse is not only Mastodon.

Mastodon has been quote-post-able for as long as it has been around

Eugen Rochko is bringing quote-posts to Mastodon. But he is not bringing quote-posts to the Fediverse. The Fediverse has had quote-posts for 15 years.

It was Mike Macgirvin who introduced quote-posts to the Fediverse in July, 2010, when he launched something called Mistpark back then and Friendica today (https://friendi.ca, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendica). That was five and a half years before Mastodon was launched.

In fact, when Mastodon was launched, it immediately federated itself with Friendica and with Hubzilla, a fork of a fork of Friendica by Friendica's own creator which has quote-posts, too. So when Mastodon was launched, it immediately became possible to quote-post Mastodon toots. Not on Mastodon itself, but on Friendica and Hubzilla.

Just about everything that isn't Mastodon has already got quote-posts right now

Here are a few (but not even all) Fediverse server applications that already have quote-posts:

• Pleroma
• Akkoma
• Misskey
• Firefish
• Iceshrimp
• Sharkey
• CherryPick
• Catodon
• Mitra
• Friendica
• Hubzilla
• (streams)
• Forte

And they're all part of the Fediverse which means that they're all connected to Mastodon. People on all of these can theoretically read your Mastodon toots. And people on all of these can theoretically quote-post your Mastodon toots.

Mastodon's quote-post opt-in is not a water-tight defence against being quote-posted

So you can choose not to be quote-posted. But you can only choose not to be quote-posted by Mastodon users. This opt-in does not work with the rest of the Fediverse.

First of all, that's because Mastodon's quote-post feature is not compatible with anything else out there. Mastodon's developers have chosen to re-invent the quote-posting wheel from scratch. They've intentionally chosen to do so in a way that's completely incompatible with everything else out there.

Their intention was to reinforce Mastodon's appearance to its own users as the one and only Fediverse and ActivityPub gold standard and to make Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Firefish, Iceshrimp, Sharkey, CherryPick, Catodon, Mitra, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams), Forte etc. look broken. It's part of their plan to keep Mastodon users on Mastodon in the wake of Mastodon's market share in the Fediverse shrinking.

Also, they did not publish any specifications on their quote-post implementation, so even those non-Mastodon developers who are fast enough didn't have a chance to implement support for Mastodon's opt-in.

This means that even if you've set your posts to un-quote-post-able on Mastodon, everything I've listed above can still quote-post you with no resistance.

Absolute Fediverse-wide protection against being quote-posted is impossible

And don't get your hopes high that the day will come when nobody on the Fediverse will be able to quote-post you, whether they're on Mastodon or not. Such a setting is technologically impossible.

Who says that? Mike Macgirvin says that. The guy who launched Friendica and brought quote-posts to the Fediverse 15 years ago, remember? This guy has built the Fediverse's most elaborate, most complex, most fine-grained, most advanced permissions system into (streams) and Forte.

These two have reply control, the kind of which you couldn't image in your wildest dreams. I'm serious. They have permissions settings for almost everything on two or three levels, for your whole channel, individually per contact and sometimes even per post or per file or folder in the file storage.

But they don't have quote-post permission settings. Because that's impossible to enforce Fediverse-wide. And even if it was possible, it'd be pointless. If they can't quote-post you, they'll copy-paste you. If they can't copy-paste you either because they're on a phone, they'll post screenshots of your toots.

Mike also says, there is exactly one way to keep people from quote-posting you, and that's by not posting in public. Unfortunately, unlike what he has created, Mastodon has little between "public" and "DM", if anything.

Mastodon cannot quote-post the non-Mastodon Fediverse

This may be the big surprise: It has recently been discovered by chance that Mastodon's quote-post feature only works with Mastodon toots.

On the one hand, Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Sharkey, Friendica, Hubzilla etc. can quote-post just about everything that comes in from Mastodon. But on the other hand, no Mastodon 4.5 user will be able to quote-post anything from either of these. Or from Pixelfed or PeerTube or Loops or Castopod or WriteFreely or whatever.

That's because Mastodon is looking for a quote-post opt-in. But nothing else in the Fediverse supports Mastodon's quote-post opt-in, also seeing as it's still officially in development. And it's highly unlikely that everything in the Fediverse will adopt another piece of non-standard, proprietary Mastodon tech.

"Quote" actually means something else

Lastly, Mastodon has the audacity to call this feature "quote".

A "quote" is something else. Remember forums? Like, bulletin-board forums with subforums and all? Where posts are quoted in follow-ups, entirely or only partially? That's what a quote is. That has got nothing to do with quote-posts.

Why I say that there's a difference? Because I also say that Friendica has had both quotes and quote-posts.

It has had them for 15 years, both quotes (which it calls "quotes", go figure) and quote-posts (which it calls "quoted shares", and which include the original author of the quoted post, complete with their profile picture and a clickable link to them, as well as a clickable link to the original post).

Hubzilla has both. (streams) has both. Forte has both. And I wouldn't be surprised if other Fediverse server software had both, too.

The irony is that Mastodon itself has been able to render actual quotes since version 4.0 from October, 2022. At the same time, it will continue to be unable to render any quote-posts done outside of Mastodon for the foreseeable future.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Sharkey #CherryPick #Catodon #Mitra #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares


#mastodon #fediverse #activitypub #hubzilla #friendica #forte #streams