When I think of something pithy, I'll put it here.
We are basically doing what #signal and in particular moxie refused to do or declares impossible: federation.
Both #email and #activitypub ecosystems are all about federation.
However, #deltachat is vertically centralized in that all UIs use the same #rust core which implements all networking, encryption, chat/group/message logic in a single centralized place. The now 40+ #chatmail mail relay network is driven from centralized code.
At each level replication and federation is built in.
@kill_9 fyi we have a plan for introducing forward secrecy that works reliably in decentralized, offline-first and multi-device settings. Nothing published about it but it's been conceptually checked from multiple cryptographic experts. We require some funding to do it. We are very aware of vast numbers of people insisting on forward security. But plain device seizure, compromised servers/clients and regional internet blockades and slowdowns are the actual everyday threats for many millions.
We don't see, or plan, a place for AI in our software stacks. A few notes.
Some attempts to use AI tooling provided nothing of value in the chatmail-core-UI stacks that produce the #deltachat store releases on all platforms.
Some in the community AI-generated a base #webxdc app and fixed bugs afterwards.That kind of worked and was borderline useful.
AI is pretty boring. We have more interesting work to do: evolve private resilient messaging by improving UX, networking, encryption, etc
Some people in #Iran successfully use delta with national email providers when outside Internet is cut.
#deltachat designs are #OfflineFirst using delay tolerant protocols. Messages are queued when a path is blocked. email servers are made for this and run at planetary scale.
Messages crossing the border may arrive three days later but they arrive.
Peoples can stay in private touch across time and space, to the extent possible in current breakdown times. Which is what delta is about.
Seeing reports that Iran has an Internet blackout, and possibly US or other countries are jamming GPS...
Turns some of my own interest in mesh networks, radio, P2P self-hosted stuff, and anti-jamming PNT solutions a little less academic :/
True, I set up a chatmail.at server on a VPS in Iran.
I have also provided my users with binary files of delta chat since the app markets like Google Play and F-Droid vanish too.
I'd like to thanks @delta once again, not only for the apps' great user experience, the ability to self-host, and the amount of privacy my users now have on my servers, but also for their dedication to help people. I just asked them some questions in DMs and they have been very helpful.
Thanks team Delta ❤️
Everyone returns to email in the end. We are there already. #whatsapp wants you to add your email to secure your account ... despite all the nay sayers and numerous well funded attempts and claims to kill #email not even WA can do it. #deltachat #chatmail and #webxdc are about deep collab between people, projects and operators to evolve email from within. It is not just about SMTP and IMAP and MIME and OpenPGP which are all exchangeable and can be improved ... Which we set out to do. Cheers.
@avoca @felis_catus_domesticus
I think what the #FreeBSD folks are trying to do for hardware support might work for the mobile space.
IIRC, they have a laptop-and-desktop team that just works on device compatibility (their meetings are posted to YT regularly), and from what I can tell, they just pick a handful of devices per year to focus most of their efforts on, so at the very least, they can say, "If you really want a laptop, look at these models first."
It would be neat if the FOSS phone community could do something like, "Ok, the regular Pixel device (not pro or fold) released in 2025 is the next one we will be working on together as a community, and after that, we will be working on the regular Pixel introduced in 2027. So plan for the future."
Also, since the "space" they're in just shrunk by a whole lot, the kind of silly bully tactics and infighting we've seen between FOSS Android projects in the past has GOT. TO. GO.
@felis_catus_domesticus @rl_dane
From dealing with GrapheneOS, the problem isn't being able to open the Bootloader, its being able to lock it again.
My understanding is this is what gives Pixel phones the advantage over other vendors when it comes to OS security. Attestation of OS integrity.
You may setup "burner" phones for specific activities which may face repression including device seizure and forced unlocking. #deltachat does not require a sim card/number and works #OfflineFirst. Seek out wifi or mobile hotspots to connect. At best form or join affinity groups and pre-establish ephemeral chats so everyone can help each other stay safe. Group onboarding is trivial with delta. Note: Digital tools are only ever supplementary to the security coming from caring for each other.
@felis_catus_domesticus @rl_dane
Some valid points there, however, I think, your average punter these days is far more technically switched-on than the '90s beast.
But, you are correct overall, Linux phone's will never be as mainstream as Google or Apple OS devices, the marketing dollars will always out rank technical merit, history is littered with examples.
But that's fine by me as long as there is a core of folk who demand more of their tech and are prepared to put in the development effort there will be customers willing to adopt, as I said, a valid alternative, even if they have go the extra yard to get it.
live in hope that Linux mobile OS's will flourish over the next decade or so and we will all have a truly valid third option.
consumers have already been programmed by years of wireless company marketing and FUD and just plain not being too bright or too technical.
It can happen, but it's going to take a lot of work on the technical side and the consumer attitude side.
phone OS alternatives are about where linux was in the public consciousness circa 1998-2003.
Also- linux phones need to be come cheap and ubiquitous. PC hardware was already that by the time linux came along, which lowered the barrier to entry substantially compared to what a commercial unix workstation or server cost in the 1990's. Same must happen with phones. If MS and apple never existed and computers sales and development were left up to the likes of SGI and Sun Microsystems, we'de still be reading print newspapers and postage stamps to communicate.
Ditto'ish...
I think as with so many of Google's dark patterns, this won't destroy the "ROMs" outright, but it will make things slowly more and more inconvenient such that it squeezes most people out and either back to Vanilla Android (disgusting) or iPhone (merely horrific).
If I understood SIP better, I might try to set up something like #linphone using a device like a Hackberry Pi and the Calyx institute's unlimited MiFi yearly plan.
I can't go back to Vanilla Android. My distrust for goog runs way too deep.
When I became "privacy woke" in 2019, I exchanged my inexpensive-ish android phone (Nokia 6.1) for a hand-me-down iPhone. I didn't trust Apple either, but I figured their "privacy theater" (making a show of privacy values) was better than google's open and incredibly invasive spying.
Then I learned more about privacy-enhanced Android builds like #CalysOS and #GrapheneOS, and I left the iPhone when my iPhone 7+ contracted the "audio chip sickness" and required earbuds to do any audio out.
If CalyxOS or other privacy-enhanced android builds become untenable, then I'll either try some kind of janky Linux phone, or just get an iPhone and use it mostly like a dumbphone.
Sounds like an interesting plan, but I can't see myself going that path. I briefly checked SIP setups here and the infrastructure required just wasn't worth it for my single use case.
Over the journey with alternatives to Google and Apple OS's I have picked-up quite a few tips on limiting the privacy damage inflicted by both to the point of maximum obfuscation and encryption I can achieve, I hope.
However, I, like many others, live in hope that Linux mobile OS's will flourish over the next decade or so and we will all have a truly valid third option.
Well, I have to admit, after a couple of years of struggling with various device's and AOSP OS's, I'm pretty well cooked anyway.
LineageOS dropped upgrades for my Samsung S9 which meant the purchase of, yet another, secondhand device of unknown quality and a new learning curve just to stay relevent.
Been down the GrapheneOS/Pixel route and found both overly cumbersome for my needs.
As it turned out, my son upgraded to an Apple iPhone 15 Pro Max a few months ago and offered me his old iPhone XS for free, so I finally grabbed it.
I have been running LineageOS/Samsung S9 and iOS/Apple XS in parallel for a week or so now, and it is just chalk and cheese. Simple as that.
I now remember why, pre-AI crap and mobile movie camera's, Apple was my goto mobile phone.
So, with this latest move by Google, I'm done completely with Android in any form and Google where possible.
Still sticking with Linux everywhere I can though.
Therefore, I bid farewell to AOSP and wish the remaining 'true believers' all the best.
Dang, it sounds like #Google is really trying to kill #FOSS #Android OSes.
https://tilvids.com/videos/watch/848e13c7-1bcf-49d3-ad75-02055c0b9576
What are my #AOSP peeps planning to do?
If OS updates get a lot slower because of this, I might have to go back to iPhone. 😭🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
#CalyxOS #GrapheneOS #LineageOS #Calyx #GOS #Lineage
UPDATE: This update from the #CalyxOS project helps answer some questions: https://calyxos.org/news/2025/06/11/android-16-plans/
It would seem that all Pixel devices will require a lot more work to port Android 16 to. It's not impossible, by any stretch, but Google has absolutely stopped helping the community in any way.
This is very bad news, all around. Not the worst news, by far, but quite bad.
1. FreeTube - Ad-free YouTube client.
2. Video Downloader - Save's data costs for YouTube videos, download them and watch on VLC.
3. Transmission - Easy to use torrent downloader.
Already running 4 Intel Macs in Linux Mint 22.01. 👍
