Lmst

@silverpill@mitra.social This means that Mastodon has re-invented the wheel again and probably been made incompatible with quote-posts from everywhere else in the Fediverse for all eternity. Exactly what just about everyone outside of Mastodon expected to happen.

Looks to me like another sign that Mastodon is actually working on intentionally making itself incompatible with everything that could be perceived as "competition" (Misskey & family, Pleroma & family, Friendica & family, Mitra, GoToSocial etc.) rather than bolted onto Mastodon as an add-on (PeerTube, Pixelfed, Ghost, WordPress etc.).

It'd be a miracle if Mastodon started formatting Misskey-style quote-posts correctly. Or Friendica-style quote-posts.

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares

Are you referring to my mentions being @Erik :heart_agender: and @Roknrol rather than what you're used to, namely @⁠bright_helpings and @⁠roknrol? Using the long name rather than the short name and keeping the @ outside the link rather than making it part of the link? Likewise, the # being outside the hashtag link rather than being part of it?

This is because I'm not on Mastodon. The Fediverse is not only Mastodon. It has never been. So this is not a toot.

No, really. This is what I post from: https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland, https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/profile/jupiter_rowland. I ask you: Does this look like Mastodon? Have you ever seen Mastodon look like this?

Where I am, this style of mentions and hashtags is hard-coded. And it has been since long before Mastodon was even an idea.

I'm on something named Hubzilla. Hubzilla is not a Mastodon instance. Hubzilla is not a Mastodon fork either. Hubzilla has got absolutely nothing to do with Mastodon at all.

It is its very own project, fully independent from Mastodon (https://hubzilla.org, https://framagit.org/hubzilla, https://joinfediverse.wiki/Hubzilla).

Hubzilla has not intruded into "the Mastodon Fediverse" either. The Fediverse is older than Mastodon. And Hubzilla was there before Mastodon.

Hubzilla was launched by @Mike Macgirvin ?️ in March, 2015, eight months before Mastodon, by renaming and redesigning his own Red Matrix from 2012, almost four years before Mastodon. And the Red Matrix was a fork of a fork of his own Friendica, which was launched on July 2nd, 2010, 15 years ago, five and a half years before Mastodon. (https://en.wikipedia.org/Friendica, https://friendi.ca, https://github.com/friendica, https://joinfediverse.wiki/Friendica)

Friendica was there before Mastodon, too.

Here's the official Friendica/Hubzilla timeline on Hubzilla's official website to show you that I'm not making anything up: https://hubzilla.org/page/info/timeline. Scroll all the way down and notice all the features that you may right now know for a fact that the Fediverse doesn't have, but that Friendica has introduced to the Fediverse 15 years ago, five and a half years before Mastodon was launched.

Again, Mastodon has never been its own network. The Fediverse has never been only Mastodon. When Mastodon was launched in January, 2016, it immediately federated with

GNU social, the successor to @Evan Prodromou's StatusNet from 2008 (the actual start of the Fediverse, eight years older than Mastodon)
@Mike Macgirvin ?️'s Friendica, now maintained by @Tobias and @Michael 🇺🇦
@Mike Macgirvin ?️'s Hubzilla

Friendica has been formatting mentions and hashtags the way I just did for 15 years now. When Mastodon was launched, Friendica has been formatting them that way for five and a half years already, and Hubzilla has done so for ten months. It is hard-coded there. It is not a user option.

That's because not everything in the Fediverse is a Twitter clone or Twitter alternative. [b]Friendica was designed as a Facebook alternative with full-blown long-form blogging capability. And Hubzilla adds even more stuff to this. This is why Friendica and Hubzilla don't mimic Twitter.

Another shocking fact: As you can clearly see here, Friendica and Hubzilla don't have Mastodon's 500-character limit. Friendica's character limit is 200,000. Hubzilla's character limit is 16,777,215, the maximum length of the database field. And it's deeply engrained in their culture, which is many years older than Mastodon's culture, to not worry about the length of a post exceeding 500 characters.

One more shocking fact: Friendica has had quote-posts since its very beginning. So has Hubzilla. Both have always been able to quote-post any public Mastodon toot, and they will forever remain able to quote-post any public Mastodon toot. And Mastodon will never be able to do anything against it. (By the way: In 15 years of Friendica, nobody has ever used quote-posts for dogpiling or harassment purposes. Neither Friendica nor Hubzilla is Twitter.)

You find this disturbing? You think none of this should exist in the Fediverse, even though all this has been in the Fediverse for longer than Mastodon?

Then go ahead and block all instances of Friendica and Hubzilla as well as all instances of Mike's later creations, (streams) (https://codeberg.org/streams/streams) from 2021 and Forte (https://codeberg.org/fortified/forte) from 2024.

Or you could go ask @Seirdy / DM me the word "bread" and @Garden Fence Blocklist as well as @Mad Villain of @The Bad Space to add every last instance on any of these lists to their blocklists for being "rampantly and unabashedly ableist and xenophobic by design" due to not being and acting and working like Mastodon and just as rampantly and unabashedly refusing to fully adopt and adapt to the Mastodon-centric "Fediverse culture" as defined by fresh Twitter refugees on Mastodon in mid-2022 as well as refusing to abandon their own culture which is disturbingly incompatible with Mastodon's. Essentially try and have four entire Fediverse server applications Fediblocked once and for all because they're so disturbing from a "Fediverse equals Mastodon" point of view.

Or you could go to Mastodon's GitHub repository (https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon), submit a feature request for defederating Mastodon from everything that isn't Mastodon by design and then go lobbying for support for your feature request.

As for why I have so many hashtags below my comments, here is what they mean. Many of them are meant to trigger filters, including such that automatically hide posts behind content warning buttons, a feature that Mastodon has had since October, 2022, that Friendica has had since July, 2010, and that Hubzilla has had since March, 2015.

#Long, #LongPost = This post is over 500 characters long. Create a filter for either or both of these hashtags if you don't want to see my or anyone else's long posts.
#CWLong, #CWLongPost = CW: long post (over 500 characters long). Create a filter for either or both of these hashtags if you don't want to see my or anyone else's long posts.
#FediMeta, #FediverseMeta = This post talks about the Fediverse. Create a filter for either or both of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone talk about the Fediverse.
#CWFediMeta, #CWFediverseMeta = CW: Fediverse meta. Or: CW: Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta. Or: CW: Fediverse meta, non-Mastodon Fediverse meta. Create a filter for either or both of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone talk about the Fediverse.
#NotOnlyMastodon, #FediverseIsNotMastodon, #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse: This post talks about the Fediverse not only being Mastodon. Create a filter for either or multiple or all of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about the Fediverse being more than Mastodon. Otherwise, click or tap any of these hashtags to read more about it in your Fediverse app.
#Friendica: This post talks about the Facebook alternative in the Fediverse named Friendica. Create a filter for it if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about Friendica. Otherwise, click or tap it to read more about it in your Fediverse app. It is also meant for post discovery.
#Hubzilla: This post talks about the Swiss army knif of the Fediverse named Hubzilla. Create a filter for it if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about Hubzilla. Otherwise, click or tap it to read more about it in your Fediverse app. It is also meant for post discovery.
#Streams, #(streams): This post talks about the Facebook alternative in the Fediverse commonly referred to as (streams). Create a filter for either or both of them if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about Friendica. Otherwise, click or tap either of them to read more about it in your Fediverse app. It is also meant for post discovery.
#Forte: This post talks about the Facebook alternative in the Fediverse named Forte. Create a filter for it if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about Forte. Otherwise, click or tap it to read more about it in your Fediverse app. It is also meant for post discovery.
#AltText = This post talks about alt-text and/or contains an image with alt-text. It is primarily meant for post discovery.
#AltTextMeta = This post talks about alt-text. Create a filter for this hashtag if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about alt-text.
#CWAltTextMeta = CW: alt-text meta. Create a filter for this hashtag if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about alt-text.
#ImageDescription = This post talks about image descriptions and/or contains an image with an image description. It is primarily meant for post discovery.
#ImageDescriptions, #ImageDescriptionMeta = This post talks about image descriptions. Create a filter for either of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about image descriptions.
#CWImageDescriptionMeta = CW: image description meta. Create a filter for this hashtag if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about image descriptions.
#Hashtag, #Hashtags, #HashtagMeta = This post talks about hashtags. Create a filter for either of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about hashtags.
#CWHashtagMeta = CW: hashtag meta. Create a filter for this hashtag if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about hashtags.
#CharacterLimit, #CharacterLimits = This post is talking about character limits. It is primarily meant for post discovery. But if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about character limits, create a filter for any of these hashtags.
#QuotePost, #QuoteTweet, #QuoteToot, #QuoteBoost = This post talks about quote-posts and/or contains a quote-post. If this disturbs you, create a filter for any of these hashtags.
#QuotePosts, #QuoteTweets, #QuoteToots, #QuoteBoosts, #QuotedShares = This post talks about quote-posts. Create a filter for either of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about quote-posts.
#QuotePostDebate, #QuoteTootDebate = This post talks about quote-posts. Create a filter for either of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about quote-posts.
#FediblockMeta = This post is talking about fediblocks. It is primarily meant for post discovery.

Lastly: Having all hashtags in one line at the very end of a post that only contains hashtags is the preferred way in the Fediverse. For one, hashtags in their own line at the end of the post irritate screen reader users much less than hashtags in the middle of the text. It's actually hashtags in the middle of the text that are ableist. Besides, Mastodon is explicitly designed to have a separate hashtag line at the end of the post.

@Scott M. Stolz Don't mix up quotes and quote-posts. They're something very different, not only in technology, but also in use-case and especially in cultural implications.

Whereas on platforms with threaded conversations, quotes are usually used in comments within a thread, and on many platforms, such comments could be removed by the thread owner.

This is a quote. Like in a bulletin-board forum. This is actually only used in comments. For Mastodon users, it's basically unimaginable that this ever happens in social media. Twitter has never had this, so most Mastodon users don't even know the very concept of this. Thus, it is not what they're upset about.

What Mastodon users are so upset about are quote-posts. What they refer to as "quote-posts" or "quote-toots" is what we call "shares" or "shared posts", what Twitter/X calls "quote-tweets", and what is used on Twitter/X for harassment and dogpiling purposes, namely this:

Scott M. Stolz wrote the following post Tue, 10 Jun 2025 08:54:18 +0200 It should be noted that Twitter-style platforms use quote posts in an entirely different way than platforms with threaded conversations.

With Mastodon, someone can quote you, criticize you, and then people dogpile on. Since it is not part of a thread, and is its own top level post, nothing can be done about it.

Whereas on platforms with threaded conversations, quotes are usually used in comments within a thread, and on many platforms, such comments could be removed by the thread owner. Yes, they can create new top level post quoting someone, but that seems to be used less on threaded conversation platforms than on Twitter style platforms.

This creates a different culture surrounding quoting people, since one has potential consequences and one does not.

Plus, I think there is also a cultural difference between people who want to broadcast their thoughts versus people who want to join conversations. People who want to participate in conversations are typically less hostile since they get banned or blocked pretty quickly. People who broadcast their posts just want as many followers to see it as possible and tend to block anyone that disagrees with them. It is a different mindset.

That is why Mastodon has to implement quote controls, but thread conversation platforms do not.

You should see that it's something completely different. This never happens within the same thread. It wouldn't make sense to quote-post/quote-tweet/share a post in a comment on that same post.

This is what Mastodon users what to have control over. This is what they want to prevent. Entirely. They would want a switch that makes Hubzilla hide the Share button under a post of theirs if they knew that a) Hubzilla exists, and b) Hubzilla can share posts/quote-post.

This is what @Mike Macgirvin ?️ keeps preaching over and over and over that literally the only possible way to keep this from happening is by not posting in public. For this is what neither Hubzilla nor Mike's own (streams) and Forte have a permission setting for because even their highly advanced and fine-grained permissions systems have no way of implementing actually water-tight quote-post control. So what chance does Mastodon have with its total lack of a permission system and no understanding of Hubzilla's, (streams)', Forte's or even only Friendica's permission system?

Mastodon doesn't have either implemented, neither quotes nor shares/quote-posts, at least not beyond displaying quotes properly formatted (it is working on displaying quote-posts properly formatted now). Hubzilla has inherited both from Friendica which has had both for 15 years.

CC: @Matteo (Mastodon)

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Quote #Quotes #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate

@Matteo (Mastodon) Nur daß ich nirgendwo ein Zitat sehe (und ich sehe den kompletten Thread auf einem Haufen) und auch keinen Quote-Post (hier auf Hubzilla sind das zwei total verschiedene Sachen, und Hubzilla hat schon immer beides unterstützt; das gilt für die ganze Software-Familie).

Wahrscheinlich wenden Phanpy und Tusky irgendeinen Trick an, der Mastodons Einschränkungen umgeht, der aber mit etablierten Standards völlig inkompatibel ist. Wahrscheinlich wissen die Entwickler weder von Phanpy noch von Tusky, daß es Quote-Posts im Fediverse schon gibt, geschweige denn, wie die gemacht werden. Also hat sich da jemand etwas völlig Neues ausgedacht, das dann nur von ein, zwei Mastodon-Apps unterstützt wird, aber von keiner einzigen Serversoftware, die Quote-Posts eingebaut hat.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hubzilla #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteTröt #QuoteTröts #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebatte #QuoteTrötDebatte

@Matteo (Mastodon)

Anyone can copy text from anywhere, start a new thread in the Fediverse, copy it in there, mark it as a quote or not, and make fun of the author.

And if that fails, they'll resort to what they've always been doing: screenshots. Not even (streams) and Forte with their advanced permissions systems can keep people from taking screenshots. (Then again, they don't have a quote-post permission setting either because such a thing wouldn't work across the Fediverse anyway.)

In the meantime, Friendica has had quote-posts for a decade and a half, and they've always been used sincerely, believe it or not. Same on Friendica's various descendants.

If the author is not fairly mentioned in the thread, he may never find out about it and be able to defend himselve.

If you're quote-posted from Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte, you're automatically notified as if you've been mentioned. I'm not sure about those server apps that have implemented Misskey's way of quote-posting, though.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate

@@reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman:

I didn't know Hubzilla had been doing quote-posts for so long — very cool.

It has indirectly inherited them from Friendica, and Friendica was born with quote-posts as early as 2010.

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #Friendica #Hubzilla

Das Traurige ist doch: Die allerallermeisten Mastodon-Nutzer "wissen" aktuell, daß es im Fediverse keine Quote-Posts gibt, weil Mastodon keine hat, zumal geschätzt immer noch jeder zweite "weiß", daß "Fediverse" und "Mastodon" dasselbe meinen und das Fediverse nur aus Mastodon besteht.

Die wenigsten werden diese Ankündigung gelesen haben. Von denen, die sie gelesen haben, werden viele "quote posts from other servers and software" nicht verstehen. Was für andere Server? Mastodon kann doch nicht quote-posten. Und was für andere Software? Was heißt andere Software? Eine andere Handy-App für Mastodon? Oder meinen die Bluesky? Kann Bluesky quote-posten? Wenn ja, dann gehört Bridgy Fed sofort gefediblockt!1!!

Das heißt übrigens auch, daß diese Pseudo-Berechtigung, wer die eigenen Tröts quote-posten darf, 99% der Mastodon-Nutzer in Sicherheit wiegen dürfte. Die sind absolut überzeugt, daß sie damit 100% wasserdicht sicher verhindern können, daß irgendjemand im Fediverse sie quote-postet. Das wird noch zu vollgemachten Hosen und panikbedingten Überreaktionen bis hin zu versuchten (oder gar tatsächlichen) Fediblocks gegen ganze Nicht-Mastodon-Instanzen führen.

Überhaupt: Mastodon kann Quote-Posts schon jetzt anzeigen. Das konnte es schon 2016. Nur hat es die bisher noch nicht anständig formatiert. Ich hoffe, es kommt bald nicht nur mit Quote-Posts wie von Misskey klar, sondern auch mit solchen wie von Friendica.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteTröt #QuoteTröts #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotePostDebatte #QuoteTrötDebatte

@Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸 The Mastodon devs are talking as if either the Fediverse is only Mastodon, or the Fediverse as a whole doesn't have quote-posts.

Neither of this is true. The Fediverse has had quote-posts since July 2nd, 2010 when Mistpark (now known as Friendica) was launched. Mastodon toots have been quote-post-able since Mastodon itself was launched, for when Mastodon was launched, it immediately federated with at least two Fediverse server applications that have quote-posts, namely Friendica and Hubzilla, a fork of a fork of Friendica by Friendica's own creator.

Nowadays, at least Pleroma, Akkoma, all other Pleroma forks, Misskey, Calckey, Firefish, Iceshrimp-JS, Iceshrimp.NET, CherryPick, Sharkey, all other Misskey forks, Mitra, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte can quote-post Mastodon toots with no problem.

And Mastodon won't be able to stop them. No, seriously, it won't. Not with a non-standard, proprietary, home-brew opt-in or opt-out switch that doesn't tie into anything that the other Fediverse server apps have. And whatever switch Mastodon is working on will not tie into anything that already exists.

Let me put it this way: Hubzilla has the second-most advanced and fine-grained permissions system in the Fediverse. It goes well beyond most people's imagination. It works on three levels: for the whole channel (that's similar to a Mastodon account), for individual contacts (that's "followers" in Mastodon lingo, but Hubzilla doesn't distinguish between followers and followed), for individual content. (streams) and Forte are the only ones with an even more advanced and fine-grained permissions system.

But even they don't have a quote-post permission setting. And they have permission settings for just about everything. You want reply control in the Fediverse? Hubzilla has reply control, and (streams) and Forte have reply control on steroids. But what they don't have is a quote-posting permission because that's next to impossible to control across the Fediverse even with the most advanced permissions system.

As @Mike Macgirvin ?️ (professional software developer for almost half a century, designer of two Fediverse protocols, creator of Friendica and Hubzilla, inventor of nomadic identity, creator and maintainer of (streams) and Forte) says: The only way to make your posts un-quote-post-able is by not posting in public and not allowing everyone in the Fediverse full access to your posts. Set your "Who can quote" however you want, I'll always be able to quote-post all your public posts with no problem and with no resistance.

So what chance does Mastodon have then? Mastodon which doesn't even know what permissions are? Developed by Eugen Rochko who actually has a history of head-butting with Mike Macgirvin, and who would never take any step towards anything that Mike has ever developed?

I'm commenting from Hubzilla right now, and I'm also on (streams). And I can tell you: If you make any of your posts "un-quote-post-able", this still won't make my Share buttons on Hubzilla and (streams) disappear.

CC: @Stefan Bohacek @FinchHaven sfba

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Calckey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Iceshrimp.NET #CherryPick #Sharkey #Mitra #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate

@FinchHaven sfba

I've seen no mention (perhaps I missed it) of who exactly gets to --> create <-- these "remote quote posts"

"remote" implies no one on my local instance

A common misconception on Mastodon is that the Fediverse doesn't have quote-posts. Anywhere.

As a matter of fact, however:

Pleroma users can quote-post Mastodon toots.
Akkoma users can quote-post Mastodon toots.
Misskey users can quote-post Mastodon toots.
Calckey users can quote-post Mastodon toots.
Firefish users can quote-post Mastodon toots.
Iceshrimp-JS users can quote-post Mastodon toots.
Iceshrimp.NET users can quote-post Mastodon toots.
CherryPick users can quote-post Mastodon toots.
Sharkey users can quote-post Mastodon toots.
Users on any other Forkey can quote-post Mastodon toots.
Mitra users can quote-post Mastodon toots.
Friendica users can quote-post Mastodon toots.
Hubzilla users can quote-post Mastodon toots.
(streams) users can quote-post Mastodon toots.
Forte users can quote-post Mastodon toots.
Many other non-Mastodon Fediverse users can quote-post Mastodon toots.

None of them have included quote-posts with the explicit intent to harass Mastodon users.

To give you an example: Friendica was launched 15 years ago, more than five years before Mastodon. It already had quote-posts back then. When Mastodon was launched, it was Mastodon that connected itself to Friendica and not the other way around. And ever since that very moment, Friendica was able to quote-post Mastodon toots.

If Mastodon adds its own, proprietary, home-brew, non-standard quote-post opt-in or opt-out, [b]all of the above will still be able to quote-post any public Mastodon toots with zero resistance[b]. In fact, they won't even know whether a Mastodon user has opted out of or not opted into being quote-post-able.

To make matters worse, the Fediverse has at least two different quote-post technologies.

Misskey and the various Forkeys put RE: <URL of the quote-posted message> into a message, and it's automatically rendered as a quote-post. It references the original, and when the original is edited, so is the quote-post. I don't know whether or not the quote-posted user is notified.

Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte generate a dumb copy of the original message from an eight-digit reference number. It comes with a "headline" containing the name of the original poster, profile picture included, and a link to the original message. Since it's a dumb copy, the quote-post will not change when the original is edited. The quote-posted user is notified similarly to being mentioned when being quote-posted.

Immediate, effective counter-measures are completely impossible against both.

CC: @Stefan Bohacek

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Calckey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Iceshrimp.NET #CherryPick #Sharkey #Mitra #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate

@BotKit by Fedify :botkit: Be aware that quotes and quote-posts are two different things, and both exist in the Fediverse. At least Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte can generate both.

This is a quote, like in every bulletin-board forum out there:

Coming soon in #BotKit 0.2.0: Native #quote post support!

Or this, but it has to be coded manually into the comment's source code:

BotKit by Fedify :botkit: wrote:

Coming soon in #BotKit 0.2.0: Native #quote post support!

This is a quote-post a.k.a. shared post a.k.a. quoted share:

BotKit by Fedify :botkit: wrote the following post Mon, 21 Apr 2025 05:51:28 +0200 Coming soon in #BotKit 0.2.0: Native #quote post support!

We're excited to share a preview of the upcoming quoting features in BotKit 0.2.0. This update will make it easier for your bots to engage with quoted content across the fediverse.

The quoting feature set includes:

Detecting when someone quotes your bot's posts with the new Bot.onQuote event handler
Accessing quoted content through the Message.quoteTarget property
Creating quote posts using the quoteTarget option in Session.publish() and Message.reply() methods

Here's a quick example of how you can use the quote detection:

bot.onQuote = async (session, quote) => {
  // The quote parameter is a Message object representing the post that quoted your bot
  await quote.reply(text`Thanks for quoting my post, ${quote.actor}!`);
  
  // You can access the original quoted message
  const originalPost = quote.quoteTarget;
  console.log(`Original message: ${originalPost?.text}`);
};

And creating quote posts is just as simple:

// Quote in a new post
await session.publish(
  text`I'm quoting this interesting message!`,
  { quoteTarget: someMessage }
);

// Or quote in a reply
await message.reply(
  text`Interesting point! I'm quoting another relevant post here.`,
  { quoteTarget: anotherMessage }
);

Remember that quoting behavior may vary across different #ActivityPub implementations—some platforms like Misskey display quotes prominently, while others like Mastodon might implement them differently.

Want to try these features right now? You can install the development version from JSR:
deno add jsr:@fedify/botkit@0.2.0-dev.90+d6ab4bdc
We're looking forward to seeing how you use these quoting capabilities in your bots!

#fedidev

Also, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte handle quote-posts a lot differently from Misskey and the Forkeys.

Misskey and the Forkeys do quote-posts like so:

RE: https://hollo.social/@botkit/01965678-eb56-7003-9c91-07e4418bf63a

At least on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, a quote-post starts out like this:

[share⁠=74153074][/share]

Upon sending the post, this piece of BBcode is changed into a full, dumb copy of the original post, led in by a line that says who posted this first, complete with a link to the profile, and that also links to the original. The original poster is being notified about this (unless they chose not to), but if the original post is edited, the edit is not forwarded to quote-posted copies.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Quotes #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts

@Tuxi ⁂ Was stört's die deutsche Eiche, wenn sich die Sau an ihr reibt?

Was stört's den Friendica-Nutzer, wenn der Riesennode, auf dem er ist, von 8000 Mastodon-Instanzen blockiert wird, weil Friendica Mastodons Quote-Post-Opt-In/Opt-Out nicht berücksichtigt? Und auf über 700 *key-Instanzen, weil deren Admins gar nicht wissen, warum zum Fediblock dieses Node aufgerufen wurde, aber vorsichtshalber mal mitmachen?

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Friendica #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteTröt #QuoteTröts #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebatte #QuoteTrötDebatte #FediblockMeta

@Michael 🇺🇦 Quote-Posts.

Drükos bzw. Drukos.

Auf Friendica, Hubzilla & Co. das Teilen von Posts, das seit 2010 im Grunde die Standardmethode ist und die meiste Zeit die einzige verfügbare Methode war, um Posts an andere Leute weiterzuleiten.

Die Twitter-nach-Mastodon-Konvertiten, die aber den überwiegenden Teil der Fediverse-Nutzer ausmachen, kennen das als Quote-Tweets, aber auch nur als Methode, um Farbige, Schwule usw. auf Twitter zu drangsalieren. Das ist der einzige Verwendungszweck, den sie dafür kennen. Einen anderen können sie sich auch gar nicht vorstellen. Das kommt in der Twitter-Kultur so nicht vor.

Die 60% sind eben die Twitter-nach-Mastodon-Konvertiten. Und von diesen 60% "wissen" mindestens 59, daß es im Fediverse keine Quote-Posts gibt. Und mindestens 35, daß das Fediverse nur Mastodon ist.

Jetzt hat Mastodon die Einführung von Quote-Posts angekündigt. Die 60% flippen jetzt natürlich ihren Shit, vor allem die Angehörigen von Minderheiten, die auf Twitter mit Quote-Tweets drangsaliert werden.

Aaaaaber: Mastodon hat auch angekündigt, daß es einen Opt-Out- oder Opt-In-Schalter für Mastodon-Profile geben wird. Damit sollen Mastodon-Nutzer kontrollieren können, ob andere Mastodon-Nutzer ihre Tröts quote-posten können oder nicht.

Wie gut kennst du Hubzilla? Stell dir eine Berechtigungseinstellung "Darf meine Beiträge wiederholen und teilen" vor. Nur daß Mastodon kein Berechtigungssystem hat.

Und nur daß das ein Eigengezücht von Mastodon sein wird, das keinerlei Grundlage in ActivityPub hat, geschweige denn in irgendwas, was schon irgendwo implementiert ist.

Heißt mit anderen Worten: Pleroma und seine Forks, Misskey und seine Forks, Friendica und seine Forks usw. usf., die werden weiterhin allesamt Tröts von jedem Mastodon-Nutzer widerstandslost quote-posten können, egal, ob sie das qua Mastodon-Kontoeinstellungen dürfen oder nicht. Weil sie gar nicht wissen können, ob sie das dürfen oder nicht.

Auf Mastodon glaubt aber beinahe ausnahmslos jeder, dieser Opt-In oder Opt-Out ist absolut wasserdicht. Es glaubt ja auch beinahe ausnahmslos jeder, daß Mastodon die erste und dann einzige Fediverse-Software sein wird mit Quote-Posts.

Wir haben im Grunde geschätzt folgende Aufteilung:

35%, die das Fediverse für nur Mastodon halten.
15%, die schon mal von Misskey und/oder Friendica gehört haben, sich aber nicht vorstellen können, daß die mit Mastodon verbunden sind, weil das doch ganz was anderes ist.
9%, die wissen, daß Misskey, Friendica & Co. mit Mastodon verbunden sind, die aber nicht wissen, daß Misskey, Friendica & Co. Mastodon-Tröts quote-posten können.
1%, die wissen, daß andere Fediverse-Serveranwendungen Mastodon-Tröts quote-posten können. Entweder, weil sie Leuten wie @crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts, @Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝ und mir aufmerksam zugehört haben, oder weil sie selbst mal was anderes als Mastodon ausprobiert haben, und zwar etwas intensiver, oder weil sie noch etwas anderes als Mastodon nebenher nutzen.
40%, die primär etwas anderes als Mastodon nutzen und wissen, daß Quote-Posts im Fediverse eben nicht böswillig genutzt werden. Schon gar nicht ausschließlich. Und die auch ganz genau wissen, daß so ein Opt-Out oder Opt-In auf Mastodon sie nicht daran hindern können wird, Mastodon-Tröts zu quote-posten.

So, dann kommst du und teilst einfach mal einen interessanten Post von Mastodon. Was du nicht weißt: Der Nutzer, der das gepostet hat, hat in seinem Mastodon-Konto eingestellt, nicht gequote-postet werden zu dürfen. Kannst du nicht wissen. Kann auch Friendica nicht wissen. Aber trotzdem quote-postest du den.

Da kannst du mir glauben, der wird aber mal so richtig hart austicken. Der wird ja gar nicht wissen, daß du auf Friendica bist. Woher auch? Mastodon zeigt das nicht an. Und auf Mastodon geht auch keine Sau auf die lokalen Profile von Leuten und guckt, wo die sind. Keine Sau.

Zwei Dinge seien noch erwähnt. Zum einen: Wenn Friendica-, Hubzilla-, (streams)- oder Forte-Nutzer Mastodon-Tröts quote-posten, werden die Tröter darüber benachrichtigt. Zum anderen, noch einmal: Auf Mastodon gelten Quote-Posts immer als Akt der Aggression. Immer.

Der wird also glauben, daß du entweder auf einer gehackten Mastodon-Instanz bist oder auf irgendwas anderem, was explizit und mit Vorsatz so ausgelegt wurde, daß es den Mastodon-Quote-Post-Opt-In/Opt-Out umgeht.

Und dann wird das Geschrei losgehen. Bestenfalls wird gefordert, einen der beiden Friendica-Hauptentwickler (also dich) zu fediblocken, also daß du auf allen Fediverse-Instanzen (zumindest denen, die mitmachen), dauerhaft vom Admin gesperrt wird.

Schlimmstenfalls wird das gefordert für den ganzen Friendica-Node, auf dem du drauf bist, also inklusive allen anderen Nutzern. Warum? Weil Pirati.ca böse ist. Weil Pirati.ca Mastodon-Tröts quote-posten kann, auch wenn das gar nicht erlaubt ist.

Unvorstellbar? Unrealistisch?

Dann möchte ich noch einmal daran erinnern, daß @Jakbous Schürz dereinst von einer Mastodon-Nutzerin geblockt wurde, weil die glaubte, daß er ein böser Black-Hat-Hacker ist und Friendica ein böses Black-Hat-Hackertool, mit dem er sich illegalerweise und mit boshafter Intention ins Mastodon-Fediverse reingehackt hat, das von Gargron so entwickelt worden ist, daß nur Mastodon-Server sich miteinander verbinden können.

Frag ihn. Ist in echt so passiert. Also gibt's solche Leute auch in echt.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NichtNurMastodon #Pleroma #Misskey #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteTröt #QuoteTröts #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebatte #QuoteTrötDebatte

@Hans van Zijst @@reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman: The Comment Control app on (streams) and Forte lets you

disallow comments on a specific post
limit comments on a specific post to only your approved connections
allow comments on a specific post only until a certain date and time in the future

In addition, even without that app, you can generally limit commenting permissions to

everyone in the Fediverse
only your approved connections
only you yourself plus connections whom you specifically give that permission by connection settings/permission role (for those who don't know Hubzilla and its descendants, this means that you can allow some of your mutual followers/followed to reply to you and disallow it for all your other mutual followers/followed while those who follow you without you following them back are not allowed to reply)

You can define a number of days for which people can comment on your posts after sending them.

And you still have Hubzilla's option to "moderate" comments that are, technically speaking, not allowed. (This means that you and only you see them at first. You have two buttons under them. One is for accepting them. In this case, you officially add them to the conversation, and your Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte connections will fetch it from your channel. The other one is for rejecting them which also deletes them.)

I don't think that any of this has any influence on whether someone can quote-post ("share") any of your posts or comments. That is, quote-posts are only allowed in public threads anyway. And if there was a permission for quote-posting, it would be defined by the start post for the whole thread because individual comments cannot have individual permissions.

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@*_jayrope Wenn du ihn naturbeläßt und ihn ganz old-schoolig für das benutzt, wofür wir heute Repeats haben. Also wie in Zeiten, als Hubzilla noch keine Repeats hatte.

Aber den schlechten Ruf hat der Quote-Post eben deshalb, weil auf Twitter auch Kommentare mit eingebaut werden.

#QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteTröt #QuoteTröts #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #Drüko #Drükos #Druko #Drukos #QuotePostDebatte #QuoteTrötDebatte

Für die, die nicht wissen, worum es hier geht:

Es geht um Quote-Posts. Das, was man von Twitter auf Englisch als "Quote-Tweets" und auf Deutsch als "Drükos" ("Drüber-Kommentare") oder "Drukos" ("Drunter-Kommentare") kennt.

#QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteTröt #QuoteTröts #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #Drüko #Drükos #Druko #Drukos #QuotePostDebatte #QuoteTrötDebatte

Here's another thing that you may not know about Hubzilla and (streams) yet: Not only do they have quote-posts, but they also have pretty effective anti-quote-post defences.

Hubzilla

Hubzilla has a permission setting named "Can source/mirror my public posts in derived channels". It has been there since 2012 when Hubzilla was still a fledgling project named Red, that's 13 years now.

Whether someone may quote-post ("share") your public posts depends on the setting in the channel role. If your channel is set to "Public", I think everyone is allowed to share your public posts. If it's set to "Private", you can (and have to) grant that permission to your connections individually by contact role. Those whom you aren't connected to are not allowed to share any of your posts.

The "Custom" channel role lets you choose between granting that permission, one out of 17 permissions, to:

everyone in the Fediverse
everyone on Hubzilla and (streams)
everyone on your home hub
unconfirmed and confirmed connections
confirmed connections
only those whom you individually grant that permission
nobody but you

(streams)

(streams) goes even further. As far as I know, it doesn't give you the option to let everyone quote-post any of your posts in the first place. Not only are you always opted out to the point that only you yourself may quote-post your posts, but you can't even fully opt in.

No matter if your channel type is "Social - Public" or "Social - Restricted", the only ones who are allowed to quote-post even only your public posts are those of your connections who get the permission from you. Unlike on Hubzilla, however, you don't have to fumble around with permission roles, although you may do so to speed things up. You've also got a dedicated switch for this permission on each connection labelled "Grant permission to republish/mirror your posts".

The effect

This permission has its strongest effect on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte: If one of their users is not allowed to share one of your posts, the Share button is missing altogether. And there's no real way around the Share button.

In fact, the Repeat button is missing, too. If you aren't allowed to quote-post it, you aren't allowed to boost it either. This permission is not about how you may forward someone's content, but whether you may forward it.

Unfortunately, Fediverse users probably everywhere else are not affected by this permission. Users of Pleroma, Misskey and their respective forks can still quote-post you to their heart's content. And I've got my doubts that Mastodon will understand this permission when it introduces quote-posts.

Then again, it's highly likely that Mastodon's quote-post opt-in or opt-out won't work outside of Mastodon either.

Privacy as an extra line of defence

If you really want to be safe, you've additionally got the option to not post in public. Any post that isn't public can neither be repeated (boosted) nor shared (quote-posted).

Both Hubzilla and (streams) give you the option to send a post to the members of a privacy group/access list (think Mastodon list on coke and 'roids), to a specific group/forum or to any individual selection of connections of yours. (streams) also has Mastodon's option to send a post to all your connections; Hubzilla can emulate that with a privacy group with all your connections in it.

Okay, your post will lose a whole lot of reach. But this is a trick that even Mastodon understands in a certain way: If a post from Hubzilla or (streams) has a restricted audience, Mastodon takes it for a PM. And you can't boost PMs, can you?

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@Chris Trottier Besides, Friendica has had quote-posts for almost 15 years as its primary method of sharing posts. It has continuously been federated with Mastodon for as long as Mastodon has been around. And stilll, there isn't a single known case of a Friendica user harassing a Mastodon user, or anyone else, by means of quote-post.

Just one example, the oldest one.

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@Matthias Die Quote-Posts an sich vielleicht nicht. Möglicherweise übernehmen sie dieselbe Technologie wie Misskey, weil Threads die auch hat.

Aber das Opt-In wird nur innerhalb von Mastodon funktionieren.

#CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares

@Lioh Und genau das wurde auf Twitter eingesetzt als Waffe gegen Angehörige von Minderheiten (BIPoC, 2SLGBTQQIA+ etc.). Im Grunde kennt man das als Twitter-User nur dafür.

Noch ein Grund, warum so viele von da nach Mastodon geflohen sind: weil Mastodon keine Quote-Posts/Drükos/Drukos hat.

Was aber kaum jemand auf Mastodon weiß: Das Fediverse hat sehr wohl Quote-Posts. Praktisch alles, was Mikro- oder Makroblogging macht und nicht "Mastodon" heißt, kann quote-posten. Und kann auch Mastodon-Tröts quote-posten.

Aussage, die ich gerade bekommen habe: Hubzilla und (streams) hätten nie die Möglichkeit haben dürfen, Mastodon-Tröts zu quote-posten, weil Mastodon sich gegen Quote-Posts entschieden hat.

Nur: Zum einen war 2016 das Nichtimplementieren von Quote-Posts keine Entscheidung zum Schutz von Twitter-Flüchtlingen, sondern zum Vereinfachen von Mastodon. Zum anderen müßten wahrscheinlich mehr als 60 Fediverse-Serveranwendungen für Mastodon eine Ausnahme einbauen.

Was für Twitter-Flüchtlinge auf Mastodon auch völlig unvorstellbar ist: Quote-Posts sind in fast 15 Jahren Friendica nie mißbräuchlich genutzt worden. Und überall sonst, was Quote-Posts kann, auch nicht.

Übrigens ist auch das wieder so ein Fall, wo Mastodon-Nutzer versuchen, dem gesamten Fediverse die Mastodon-Kultur aufzuzwingen und Features, die Mastodon nicht hat, wegzunehmen.

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@PaulaToThePeople

Mastodon decided against quote posts so far, so Hubzilla and (streams) should not allow quoting Mastodon posts.

I mean, I could propose to Mike, Mario and Harald to automatically remove the Share button under any and all posts and comments from Mastodon, just to see their reactions.

But as a matter of fact, Pleroma and Akkoma can quote-post Mastodon toots just the same. The same goes for Misskey and its over 50 forks, including but not limited to JavaScript-based Iceshrimp which won't get any new features, Iceshrimp.NET which isn't officially released yet, Sharkey, CherryPick and Catodon. And Friendica can quote-post Mastodon toots, too.

Several dozen Fediverse server projects can quote-post Mastodon toots. They all would have to change. Or they all would have had to change the moment that it was decided that Mastodon lacks quote-posts to protect its users rather than to stay simple.

And where are you reading that Mastodon will reinvent the wheel? To me it reads like they are working on Fediverse-wide interoperability for these features.

That has been Mastodon's track record since its very inception. I won't believe that anything has changed about this until Mastodon actually implements technology introduced by another Fediverse server project.

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