#FirefoxSecondSidebar

Droppie [infosec] 🐨:archlinux: :kde: :firefox_nightly: :thunderbird: :vegan:​MsDropbear42@infosec.space
2025-06-19

@boo_ @AAKL @9to5Mac Hi Klara. I reckon you've made fine points & well expressed. I shall readily & entirely concede that my choice of comparison was crude & legitimately liable for criticism. Let me try though to explain what was/is in my mind, wrt all the Mozilla shenanigans & imbroglio.

First, i readily join the bands of voices criticising Mozilla over many years for apparently letting Firefox fall far behind the competition. One does not even need to consider the chromium-based competition, to be able to criticise their apparent loss of interest in FF until comparatively recent months. Even staying within the Gecko-sphere, the fact that single-Dev projects like #Floorp & #Zen have been able to create quite excellent forks in short time that far exceed the limited innovation Mozilla have done in FF for many years, should shame them. Moreover, other single-Dev projects like the fabulous #FirefoxSecondSidebar, & then also ofc the AOs #TreeStyleTab & #Sidebery, illustrate by comparison how negligent the FF Devs have been [or maybe, been allowed to be], in not natively incorporating such great innovations that elevate the UX so considerably.

Secondly, the brouhaha recently re the ToS / ToC or whatever we call it. Mozilla possibly could not have been more ham-fisted & incompetent wrt how badly they mismanaged the situation, & they deserved a lot [but far from all, IMO] of the worldwide criticism they incurred. As to the germane details themselves, fwiw i tend atm to fall on the side of the argument that they were very clumsy, but not being evil by design... & in matters like these i always ask myself the counterfactual "well ok, do i now distrust them enough to actually abandon them & thence choose to cut off my nose to spite my face by entering the actual proven evil empire of chromium-based browsers?". My answer remains NO!!!

Thirdly, the #AI problem. Lemme state upfront that i despise the entire global fetish that's erupted for #LLMs / #GenerativeAI. I loathe & despise the vast intellectual property theft perpetrated in training these things, despair at the shocking environmental implications of them, & alternatively scream & cackle at the gross human stupidity manifested by peeps all over the rock blindly accepting the hallucinated garbage produced by these monstrosities. Do i want AI in my Foxes? Nope. Would i prefer Mozilla was not apparently bent on this path? Yep. However, again i ask myself that counterfactual, which i am able to mediate with the knowledge that atm anyway, knowledgeable users are still able to actively choose not to use it, & deactivate it, in their Foxes. Is that the best way Mozilla could have done it? No, ofc not. Is it overall a scenario that i can still use to my advantage? Yes. Is it a least-worst alternative to the chromium horrors? Yep.

A Third-&-a-Half point arises. I said above "knowledgeable users are still able to actively choose not to use it". What then though for non-knowledgeable users, for the non-geeks, the "regular peeps"? Here i admit my attitude is harsh & possibly mean, & i shall accept all criticism of it. IMO the "regular peeps" do not care one jot about any of this. They often struggle to grasp that a Search Engine is not a Browser. Many do not know or care that they have a substantial browser choice, beyond whatever came on their device. They think of "Browser" & "Chrome" as being synonymous & indivisible. They have no idea that they do not in fact have to tolerate their present miserable web UX of sites drowning in ads, trackers & malware. They have no idea of the existence, much less purpose, of #uBlockOrigin. I posit that these peeps are the target market, aka shooting fish in a barrel, of the present AI fetish, who know not &/or care not about any & all the ills of AI, who are unmotivated to lift a finger to improve their online UX, & who simply desire to accept whatever slop is served to them. IMO none of the recent Mozilla noise is relevant to them, as they're either not using FF anyway, or if they are, do not care about anything behind the curtain.

So, my OP was primitive & arguably invalidly comparing apples with oranges, but i wrote it with all the above in my mind. Fwiw.

Droppie [infosec] 🐨:archlinux: :kde: :firefox_nightly: :thunderbird: :vegan:​MsDropbear42@infosec.space
2025-06-18

@cR0w @AAKL @9to5Mac Fair point. Without minimising the validity of your riposte, i was trying to engage a wider principle. Over the recent months so many tooters & bloggers & posters & journalists have made sweeping assessments of doom wrt #Firefox, which have alternatively amused & frustrated me. So many critiques have been unnuanced & histrionic, sometimes plain wrong. Meanwhile, each day i have continued using my #FirefoxNightly + #Sidebery + #FirefoxSecondSidebar, with my tweaked #userJS, & enjoying a magnificent browsing & tab-management UX. However, circling back to your final line...

many users likely wouldn't even know about that change

...also legitimately applies to my setup. I would wholeheartedly agree that :firefox: , :firefox_nightly: , Beta, DevEd would be better if Mozilla brought more granularity directly into the main GUI Settings, rather than leaving them buried for geeks. However, i prefer to "suggest" that enhancement, not [as so many armchair critics recently have felt wont] to rage & moan & declare the death of the fox.

Droppie [infosec] 🐨:archlinux: :kde: :firefox_nightly: :thunderbird: :vegan:​MsDropbear42@infosec.space
2025-06-10
Droppie [infosec] 🐨:archlinux: :kde: :firefox_nightly: :thunderbird: :vegan:​MsDropbear42@infosec.space
2025-06-07

@dusepo :floorp: and :firefox_nightly:

They both provide me with a delightful browsing experience. I do happen to trick them both up, but even in default state they're both excellent. 🎉 🥳 👯‍♀️

#Floorp12 #FirefoxNightly #FirefoxSecondSidebar #Sidebery #TreeStyleTab

Droppie [infosec] 🐨:archlinux: :kde: :firefox_nightly: :thunderbird: :vegan:​MsDropbear42@infosec.space
2025-05-04

@MsDropbear42 @floorp Well well well, how nice! 💃💃

Floorp Daylight aka Floorp 12 Beta, Version 138.0.2@0.1.21 as available 11 hours ago at github.com/Floorp-Projects/Flo, has made a major jump forward in features & reliability.

  • Now its #Workspaces seem to work, and survive restarts [older Betas failed on one or both of those]
  • it now has native #MouseGestures and they work [so i can remove #Gesturefy]
  • its native #WebPanels #Sidebar is less powerful than the #FirefoxSecondSidebar project, but is still excellent & highly usable
  • its internal special Floorp settings page, now called Floorp Hub, has regained several [albeit certainly not all] of the fab #Floorp11 UI options

Atm the native #Firefox #TabGroups do not respect Workspaces, ie, persist across all of them, unlike ordinary tabs which now do stay in their respective WS. Thus my next focus of interest will be to see if coming Betas manage to fully integrate these Groups into the Workspaces.

TLDR: This latest Beta is such that i can now seriously consider the possibility of using it as more than just a curiosity, & as an actual daily browser.

#floorp #floorp12

Droppie [infosec] 🐨:archlinux: :kde: :firefox_nightly: :thunderbird: :vegan:​MsDropbear42@infosec.space
2025-04-06

Like a mindless moth to a flame, this morn i was tempted to give #ZenBrowser yet another chance, despite its disappointing history of letting me down, eg:

Sadly, yet again after only ~two hours, i had to abandon it again, when i discovered that the bug with the search-bar dropdown menu remains broken, such that choosing impromptu searches in my alternative search engines remains impossible.

So, back i go, yet again, to the lovely... and reliable... :firefox_nightly:

:firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #Mv2 #uBO + #Sidebery + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = THE best browsing & sophisticated tab management + Web Panel UX i've ever had, easily eclipsing Vivaldi, :floorp: #Floorp, :zenbrowser: #ZenBrowser, Waterfox, LibreWolf... ergo = 💜🥳🎉👯‍♀️

:firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #NativeVerticalTabs + #uBlockOrigin + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = Very usable already as of Feb 2025, albeit less powerful than Sidebery, ergo = 💜 🎉

Droppie [infosec] 🐨:archlinux: :kde: :firefox_nightly: :thunderbird: :vegan:​MsDropbear42@infosec.space
2025-04-04

@markstos Heehee.

:firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #Mv2 #uBO + #Sidebery + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = THE best browsing & sophisticated tab management + Web Panel UX i've ever had, easily eclipsing Vivaldi, :floorp: #Floorp, :zenbrowser: #ZenBrowser, Waterfox, LibreWolf... ergo = 💜🥳🎉👯‍♀️

:firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #NativeVerticalTabs + #uBlockOrigin + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = Very usable already as of Feb 2025, albeit less powerful than Sidebery, ergo = 💜 🎉

Droppie [infosec] 🐨:archlinux: :kde: :firefox_nightly: :thunderbird: :vegan:​MsDropbear42@infosec.space
2025-03-31

@Flaky Yes ordinary :firefox: has no native tab tiling, but if you setup #FirefoxSecondSidebar github.com/aminought/firefox-s in it you get defacto two-tab tiling, which i use every day & works great. Furthermore, by installing the Mozilla AddOn Side View, you then get defacto three-tab tiling.

Droppie [infosec] 🐨:archlinux: :kde: :firefox_nightly: :thunderbird: :vegan:​MsDropbear42@infosec.space
2025-03-11

@fnwbr And yet, here i be, revelling in the delightful UX that is my :firefox_nightly: , with all the #telemetry disabled, the #AI disabled, numerous other parameters hardened via my #userJS, with the exquisite #Sidebery & its infinitely-nestable tree-tabs & multiple #Workspaces on its LHS, & the brilliant project #FirefoxSecondSidebar with my 21 #WebPanels on its RHS. It's such a great daily browsing UX, unfazed by the last ten days of global #FUD [all the so-called nasties can be disabled, either via simple clicks in the Settings UI, or otherwise via about:config / user.js]. Herd-mentality is a ridiculous trait of humans. 🙄🤦‍♀️

:firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #Mv2 #uBO + #Sidebery + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = THE best browsing & sophisticated tab management + Web Panel UX i've ever had, easily eclipsing Vivaldi, :floorp: #Floorp, :zenbrowser: #ZenBrowser, Waterfox, LibreWolf... ergo = 💜🥳🎉👯‍♀️

:firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #NativeVerticalTabs + #uBlockOrigin + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = Very usable already as of Feb 2025, albeit less powerful than Sidebery, ergo = 💜 🎉

Droppie [infosec] 🐨:archlinux: :kde: :firefox_nightly: :thunderbird: :vegan:​MsDropbear42@infosec.space
2025-03-10

@MsDropbear42 Oh ffs, this latest experiment with :zenbrowser: #ZenBrowser has ended after only a few hours, due to yet another catastrophic failure, preceded by various annoyances:

  • the dedicated Search Bar refused to show the drop-down menu of alternative search engines [works fine in :firefox: and :firefox_nightly: ]
  • the #Stylus AO refused to respond to clicks on its various usage & management icons in its drop-down menu [works fine in :firefox: and :firefox_nightly: ]
  • a link i opened from my Masto #Statuzer page decided to behave like i'd used #Glance [i did not], then when i converted it into a normal tab, entirely froze the Statuzer tab
  • wondering if possibly restarting Zen might fix the above, i tried to do so, which then destroyed my carefully crafted Zen profile... what ensued was a UI without various standard changes i'd made [eg, the Search Bar was gone again, the native tabs bar refused to Collapse again], but worst of all, all my open tabs were gone... again 😲 🤯🙄🤦‍♀️😡

My dear old :firefox_nightly: might be less pretty, less visually exciting, & might not have native split tabs, but far out it is & remains way way waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more reliable than Zen. I mean, it's really a bit silly... :firefox_nightly: is Alpha, :zenbrowser: is Beta, yet the former is generally rock solid reliable in the ~decade i've been using it. Otoh, all my experiments with Zen, over the past ~12-18 months, have ended in disappointment, frustration, & often also destruction.

So, yet again, i return to...

:firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #Mv2 #uBO + #Sidebery + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = THE best browsing & sophisticated tab management + Web Panel UX i've ever had, easily eclipsing Vivaldi, :floorp: #Floorp, :zenbrowser: #ZenBrowser, Waterfox, LibreWolf... ergo = 💜🥳🎉👯‍♀️

:firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #NativeVerticalTabs + #uBlockOrigin + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = Very usable already as of Feb 2025, albeit less powerful than Sidebery, ergo = 💜 🎉

Droppie [infosec] 🐨:archlinux: :kde: :firefox_nightly: :thunderbird: :vegan:​MsDropbear42@infosec.space
2025-03-10

Have decided to give #ZenBrowser another go, but with conditions:

In case anyone wonders, this [temporary?] change from my hitherto daily :firefox_nightly: [#FirefoxNightly + #Sidebery + #uBlockOrigin + #FirefoxSecondSidebar] has nothing to do with the recent global #FUD wrt Mozilla's #TOU / #EULA, but instead is due to the aesthetic pleasantness of :zenbrowser: & the desire to use its #SplitTabView #TabSplitView #TabPaneView; two undeniable advantages over Nightly.

* the Zen subreddit is full of users posting that Zen spontaneously lost all their tabs, or all their pinned tabs, or all their unpinned tabs. In my own past months of using Zen with its native #Workspaces & tabs, it also happened to me, twice, & it is most exasperating.

Droppie [infosec] 🐨:archlinux: :kde: :firefox_nightly: :thunderbird: :vegan:​MsDropbear42@infosec.space
2025-03-08

@eknobl Also, the native #TabGroups have been working well for several weeks in :firefox_nightly:, & in my recent testing they also now seem to have become reliable in :firefox: . The whole native #VerticalTabs UI ootb has ridiculous amounts of padding per tab, such that a stupidly small number of tabs can be open before invoking the scrollbar... i fixed this via some #CSS. The one remaining major design paradigm i dislike is that the tab groups are primitive like in Vivaldi & Chromium, ie, only single-level; no hierarchical trees are possible. Hence, even though the new VTs & TGs are aesthetically pleasing & quite usable, i still keep returning to Sidebery.

:firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #Mv2 #uBO + #Sidebery + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = THE best browsing & sophisticated tab management UX i've ever had, easily eclipsing Vivaldi, :floorp: #Floorp, :zenbrowser: #ZenBrowser, Waterfox, LibreWolf... ergo = 💜🥳🎉👯‍♀️

:firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #NativeVerticalTabs + #uBlockOrigin + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = Very usable already as of Feb 2025, albeit less powerful than Sidebery, ergo = 💜 🎉

Droppie [infosec] 🐨:archlinux: :kde: :firefox_nightly: :thunderbird: :vegan:​MsDropbear42@infosec.space
2025-03-06

@thelinuxEXP Hi Nick. Oh well, fwiw, i continue to trust my :firefox_nightly:, but i reinforce that sense of equanimity with my long-standing disabling of all the telemetry, both via the UI Preferences check-boxes, & my discrete additions to my user.js. I do not defend Mozilla's unbelievably hamfisted binfire they created last week & subsequently, but i do til further notice accept their explanation [&, as i said, i have forced all telemetry off anyway].

:floorp: 11 [which i think you installed] is nearing end-of-life [but i happily ran it for over a year til a few months ago], & #Floorp 12 via recently released Beta is improving each few days but so far remains very broken & feature-incomplete.

:zenbrowser: was a very interesting option i ran for several months, but have largely lost interest in it nowadays as its development has headed off in areas of little interest to me, whilst neglecting features of importance to me.

#Tor #LibreWolf #Waterfox all fail to meet my daily usability preferences.

So til further notice, i remain happily in this mode, fwiw:

:firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #Mv2 #uBO + #Sidebery + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = THE best browsing & sophisticated tab management UX i've ever had, easily eclipsing Vivaldi, :floorp: #Floorp, :zenbrowser: #ZenBrowser, Waterfox, LibreWolf... ergo = 💜🥳🎉👯‍♀️

:firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #NativeVerticalTabs + #uBlockOrigin + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = Very usable already as of Feb 2025, albeit less powerful than Sidebery, ergo = 💜 🎉

Best wishes with your alternative choices, hope it all goes well for you.

Droppie [infosec] 🐨:archlinux: :kde: :firefox_nightly: :thunderbird: :vegan:​MsDropbear42@infosec.space
2025-02-28

@kinetix @mitten It's not for me to recommend, coz i have no way of knowing other peep's use-cases, threat models, & UX priorities. However i'll illustrate with some dot points for me... but none of this might pertain to you/others. Everyone needs to make their own decision.

  • privacy & security are high priority for me
  • a sophisticated browser UX is high priority for me, including high levels of customisability
  • the preceding two points are clearly in collision, & when that arises, i tip towards UX over P&S, so long as P&S still remain above my acceptable minimum thresholds
  • thus, all chromium browsers are off the table for me, coz... google, & Mv3, thus no more uBO... i refuse to accept that
  • so it still needs to be a Gecko browser for me, meaning... original FF, or fork?
  • i've tested & rejected both #Tor & #Librewolf, coz both have sacrificed too much UX for P&S
  • i've extensively tested & used for several months, both #Floorp & #ZenBrowser. I was initially very thrilled by both, but the latter is now heading off in UX directions completely anathema to me, whilst the former [being atm still v11, ie, #ESR-forked] is several months overdue on release of its heralded v12 that will be rebased to FF-release version. I keenly await this.
  • so for the time being, i remain happily using ...

:firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #Mv2 #uBO + #Sidebery + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = THE best browsing & sophisticated tab management UX i've ever had, easily eclipsing Vivaldi, :floorp: #Floorp, :zenbrowser: #ZenBrowser, Waterfox, LibreWolf... ergo = 💜🥳🎉👯‍♀️

:firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #NativeVerticalTabs + #uBlockOrigin + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = Very usable already as of Feb 2025, albeit less powerful than Sidebery, ergo = 💜 🎉

  • the same positive UX + P&S combo also pertains [for me; i am NOT generalising to other peeps] for vanilla #Firefox, it's just that i like being more on the cutting edge for faster arrival of new goodies & bug fixes.

Fwiw.

Droppie [infosec] 🐨:archlinux: :kde: :firefox_nightly: :thunderbird: :vegan:​MsDropbear42@infosec.space
2025-01-25

mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/136.

Starting with Firefox 136, profile management is now available in Nightly builds. Users can now more easily create and switch between different profiles.

mozilla.hosted.panopto.com/Pan

Linked video shows how to use the new Profiles paradigm, but once more, is totes silent on how to migrate old Profiles into the new paradigm. This is exasperating me, coz i have four much-used existing profiles, & i do not feel like just throwing away all the work that went into building them up over recent years, just to begin afresh.

Hey @firefoxnightly @mozillaofficial howzabout you please explain to we Nightly users with old profiles, how to migrate them? I find the silence on this baffling.

:firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #Sidebery + #uBlockOrigin + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = 💜 🎉 🥳 👯‍♀️

#Profiles #ProfileManagement

Droppie [infosec] 🐨:archlinux: :kde: :firefox_nightly: :thunderbird: :vegan:​MsDropbear42@infosec.space
2025-01-21

Given

i played around tonight in my :firefox_nightly: creating three new #profiles using this new profile management paradigm. My :firefox_nightly: already had four existing profiles, of the old paradigm, which i use frequently for specific use-cases, & i'm not willing to just throw them away. Hence, i then attempted to copy each of the old profiles' folders & files into the respective new ones. That was hopeless, as clearly it overwrote whatever parameters are buried somewhere in each respective new-paradigm profile folders that tells them they are of the new paradigm, thus buggering it all up.

That's the same failed outcome as when i last tried this a few months ago, when :firefox_nightly: first received the new-paradigm option. I had hoped that in the interim the Devs might have provided some explicit method to migrate from old to new profiles, without users having to just blunder about blindly in the filesystem, but alas no, not yet.

Do any :firefox_nightly: users reading this toot happen to know the correct method to migrate profiles?

:firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #Sidebery + #uBlockOrigin + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = 💜 🎉 🥳 👯‍♀️

Droppie [infosec] 🐨:archlinux: :kde: :firefox_nightly: :thunderbird: :vegan:​MsDropbear42@infosec.space
2025-01-10

Discussions & "advice" like this usually amuse me, albeit if i'm in a bad mood it just angers me.

reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/

Occasionally someone sticks their head above the parapet to ask a similar question, & time after time without fail all the naysayers pile on & "assure" the questioner that "oh no, don't use nightly, it's far too unstable, quelle horreur!".

You dopes! Have you actually tried? 🙄🤦‍♀️

:firefox_nightly: has been my daily default browser for more years than i can exactly recall now, but it is at least six years [admittedly with various periods of distraction into a certain "other" browser that shall remain nameless here]. It is brilliant, i love it... & though ofc masochism is enormous fun, i do not use this browser out of some desire to torment myself.

Pls, oh wise peeps who routinely badmouth Nightly in favour of vanilla :firefox: , put a sock in it, your advice is wrong.

:firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #Sidebery + #uBlockOrigin + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = 💜 🎉 🥳 👯‍♀️

Droppie [infosec] 🐨:archlinux: :kde: :firefox_nightly: :thunderbird: :vegan:​MsDropbear42@infosec.space
2025-01-03

@dec_hl There is so sooooooooo much bullshit, #FUD & outright lies being spread about #Firefox lately. Don't want #AI in it? Fine, simply keep the setting disabled [as i do]. Don't want to be involved in the weirdarse ads thing mozilla did a few months ago? Fine, also keep that setting disabled [as i do]. Maybe Firefox will cease to be if gargle is forced to stop funding Firefox Search? Ok, if/when that happens, it would be time to find another browser, but it has not happened yet & might not happen at all, so running away screaming with hands waving in the air now, as many seem to advocate, is stupid.

My daily browsing experience continues to be magnificent with :firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #Sidebery + #uBlockOrigin + #FirefoxSecondSidebar [for #WebPanels].

:floorp: #Floorp 11 was nice to use for a while, but its replacement 12 is months late with minimal public info easily found.

:zenbrowser: #ZenBrowser recently progressed from Alpha to Beta status, but i stopped using it several weeks ago in frustration at the wild swings in browser design the Dev keeps trying. Certainly though it will be worthwhile revisiting once it reaches Stable phase.

Personally i will never ever use Chrome under any circumstances, only occasionally launch Chromium under sufferance, abandoned Vivaldi a couple of years ago, & also dislike Brave... so if the day does ever arise when FF is no more, the remaining choice will be odious indeed.

Droppie [infosec] 🐨:archlinux: :kde: :firefox_nightly: :thunderbird: :vegan:​MsDropbear42@infosec.space
2024-12-12

@kkarhan @karlauerbach @adamshostack Fwiw...

So many peeps are writing so much stuff about the badness of #Firefox [due to the mismanagement by #Mozilla], & the "imminent" end of the Fox road if/when gargle stops funding Mozilla. I have a certain sympathy with such views. However it's the next part that gobsmacks me... all the despairing Foxers already abandoning FF, & jumping to some chromium poison. Far out, talk about an exercise in foot gun bang 🙄🤦‍♀️

Certainly, i dunno what the Fox Future will be, but jumping now at shadows seems perverse. By all means, let's jump some indeterminate time in the future if FF becomes actually dead, but for now, all i know is that my :firefox_nightly: #FirefoxNightly + #Mv2 #uBO + #Sidebery + #FirefoxSecondSidebar = THE best browsing & sophisticated tab management UX i've ever had, easily eclipsing Vivaldi, :floorp: #Floorp, :zenbrowser: #ZenBrowser, Waterfox, LibreWolf...

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